Onlinescubalessons/Aquatrophics/SDA/David Holt

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This guy says we are all corrupt..he says the entire industry is corrupt..he wants us to outside of our agency's standards to get him want he wants on the cheap..I always taught during IDC's that a sign of professionalism is the ability to teach according to the standards of your respective agency.To not do so or to go outside of established standards is NOT a sign of professionalism..I wrote that I hoped he would file a complaint with his credit card company and that he would get his $ back.He replied that because I was offended with his statement of corrupt industry he said "screw you".. I now retract my wish for him to get back his $ and he should take this as a lesson to learn from.
Any other industry pro's here feel offended by this persons overall "corrupt industry " statement??
Click "LIKE" here and show your feelings!
 
This guy says we are all corrupt..he says the entire industry is corrupt..he wants us to outside of our agency's standards to get him want he wants on the cheap..I always taught during IDC's that a sign of professionalism is the ability to teach according to the standards of your respective agency.To not do so or to go outside of established standards is NOT a sign of professionalism..I wrote that I hoped he would file a complaint with his credit card company and that he would get his $ back.
Any other industry pro's here feel offended by this persons overall "corrupt industry " statement??
Click "LIKE" here and show your feelings!
 
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I am highly offended by his assertions. It is even more surprising that his responses are so venomous. Especially for a professional therapist. As someone who is intimately involved with an LCSW, MSW I am quite taken aback at his response to the offense taken by legitimate dive professionals. Since the LCSW title itself is absolutely no guarantee of any kind of quality.

I know this for a fact based on the experiences therapists I have known personally and professionally have had in dealing with patients who have been taken advantage of by other so called pro's. That there is some type of state, local, or federal govt. regulations over a profession is still no guarantee of quality service. Anyone remember the "You're doin a heckuva job Brownie!" statement?

I do appreciate the fact that the OP is apparently not hiding behind some internet handle. That shows some guts. And maybe some poor judgment as well if a patient or potential patient should see the responses he has posted so far. I certainly would not choose a therapist who so easily generalizes an entire group of people based on the actions of one individual. Or who so quickly attacks those who are just trying to give him information that he requested.

As for SDA and the content of it's courses and whether or not it is the same as PADI's, SSI's, SDI's, NAUI's or Billy Joe Bob's Scubie Divin Learnin center. The fact is that a little research would have shown that it is not accepted in lieu of training within the agency's approved curriculum models. I personally don't like elearning for the Basic Open Water class and feel that it is not a good substitute for extensive face to face interaction with an instructor in the classroom at the entry level, but that's me. It is here, others are ok with it, they accept it and see good results. I personally would still require the student to put in significant time with me even if they did complete it.

Mr Falk's ire seems to be directed at the wrong people. The industry did not rip him off. PADI did not rip him off. No instructor on this board ripped him off. SDA did. But it appears that SDA, true to form, is saying tough noogies to him. And he seemingly refuses to follow the advice I'm sure he tells the majority of his patients at one time or another to take some responsibility for their own actions. Maybe his momma did or did not breast feed him, or his father was always at work or a drunk or never at home or walked out. But it does not mean he is free from taking responsibility for himself and looking at his part in this mess.

Did he research the on line entity thoroughly? Considering that it really is his son's life on the line.

Did he call and speak to someone at SDA and get assurances that the course would be accepted?

Did he get on the phone and call local dive shops in his area to indeed verify SDA's claims?

Did he call local shops or instructors and see if this was indeed a good deal? As we all know times are tough and a shop just might be willing to give a discount on training.

Did he call any agencies, whose numbers are easily located, to verify SDA's claims?

Based on what he has said here we can infer that the answer is no.

What would he say to one of his patients that did this?

What would he say to a patient that told him they were going to sign their kid up for a course where their life could be at risk if they did not do everything correctly because they did an on line search and it was the cheapest and fastest one?

We seem to have someone who is highly pissed off at the dive industry now because we did not do all the research for him and take all the responsiblity out of his hands. Isn't that what this is about? Another individual wants it fast, easy, and cheap. They want to leave all the work in the hands of someone else.

No different than a diver foolishly allowing a DM to plan their dives or an instructor to say "here's 28lbs of lead. That should keep you down in that 3 mil" and not questioning it.

It is this lack of taking responsibility that is fostered and even encouraged by folks like SDA and those "professionals" that do these things that I just mentioned. And worst of all making money off of it.

Had he done one Google search this likely would not have happened. I wonder how much research he did when he bought his last major appliance? Probably more than on this, where his son's life could literally be in the balance.
 
My son took the course material, which I understand is almost exactly like the PADI course, who seems fairly inbreed and corrupt as well.
And where did you obtain this undertsanding that your sons "course" is almost exactly like the PADI online course? Did ONLINE Scuba.com, Scuba Divers of America, SDA or David Holt tell you this, or did you research it?
Now if it was in fact exactly like the PADI online course, or any other reputable agencies course, then there would be a very good chance somone would have your son in the pool conducting skills and soon off to open water for certification.

I would wager that if you had came in here and admitted you got scammed and not called our industry inbreed and corrupt, someone would have offered to help you out. Either by discounting their course (read free academics sessions) or found someone in your area that would be willing to help you out. Unfortunately you directed your anger in the wrong direction.
Good luck Ms. Falk, I'm sorry your son will not be able to dive during your next vacation without some addtional expense.
 
Hmm, did not know it was she. So I'll repost my other thread responce here using the proper gender.

I am highly offended by her assertions. It is even more surprising that her responses are so venomous. Especially for a professional therapist. As someone who is intimately involved with an LCSW, MSW I am quite taken aback at her response to the offense taken by legitimate dive professionals. Since the LCSW title itself is absolutely no guarantee of any kind of quality.

I know this for a fact based on the experiences therapists I have known personally and professionally have had in dealing with patients who have been taken advantage of by other so called pro's. That there is some type of state, local, or federal govt. regulations over a profession is still no guarantee of quality service. Anyone remember the "You're doin a heckuva job Brownie!" statement?

I do appreciate the fact that the OP is apparently not hiding behind some internet handle. That shows some guts. And maybe some poor judgment as well if a patient or potential patient should see the responses she has posted so far. I certainly would not choose a therapist who so easily generalizes an entire group of people based on the actions of one individual. Or who so quickly attacks those who are just trying to give her information that she requested.

As for SDA and the content of it's courses and whether or not it is the same as PADI's, SSI's, SDI's, NAUI's or Billy Joe Bob's Scubie Divin Learnin center. The fact is that a little research would have shown that it is not accepted in lieu of training within the agency's approved curriculum models. I personally don't like elearning for the Basic Open Water class and feel that it is not a good substitute for extensive face to face interaction with an instructor in the classroom at the entry level, but that's me. It is here, others are ok with it, they accept it and see good results. I personally would still require the student to put in significant time with me even if they did complete it.

Ms Falk's ire seems to be directed at the wrong people. The industry did not rip her off. PADI did not rip her off. No instructor on this board ripped her off. SDA did. But it appears that SDA, true to form, is saying tough noogies to her. And she seemingly refuses to follow the advice I'm sure she tells the majority of her patients at one time or another:

To take some responsibility for their own actions.

Maybe her momma did or did not breast feed her, or her father was always at work or a drunk or never at home or walked out. But it does not mean she is free from taking responsibility for herself and looking at her part in this mess.

Did she research the on line entity thoroughly? Considering that it really is her son's life on the line.

Did she call and speak to someone at SDA and get assurances that the course would be accepted?

Did she get on the phone and call local dive shops in his area to indeed verify SDA's claims?

Did she call local shops or instructors and see if this was indeed a good deal? As we all know times are tough and a shop just might be willing to give a discount on training.

Did she call any agencies, whose numbers are easily located, to verify SDA's claims?

Based on what she has said here we can infer that the answer is no.

What would he say to one of her patients that did this?

What would she say to a patient that told her they were going to sign their kid up for a course where their life could be at risk if they did not do everything correctly because they did an on line search and it was the cheapest and fastest one?

We seem to have someone who is highly pissed off at the dive industry now because we did not do all the research for her and take all the responsiblity out of her hands. Isn't that what this is about? Another individual wants it fast, easy, and cheap. They want to leave all the work in the hands of someone else.

No different than a diver foolishly allowing a DM to plan their dives or an instructor to say "here's 28lbs of lead. That should keep you down in that 3 mil" and not questioning it.

It is this lack of taking responsibility that is fostered and even encouraged by folks like SDA and those "professionals" that do these things that I just mentioned. And worst of all making money off of it.

Had she done one Google search this likely would not have happened. I wonder how much research she did when she bought her last major appliance? Probably more than on this, where her son's life could literally be in the balance.

And as a postscript, I know this sounds entirely sexist but, I'd think a mother would be even more likely to check into something like this thoroughly to be sure it was safe and on the up and up. More so than many dad's who would look at it and see it as no more dangerous than any other sport and a guy thing to do.
 
Is the content of his course the same as the PADI one? It appears to be, in that case, there would be no "danger" in taking it, it is just PADI who is corrupt and inbreed. Jan Falk, LCSW (actually a regulated and credentialed industry)
I have not seen the SDA content, but I can almost guarantee that it is not the same. I have worked with the people who created the PADI online course material. It was created at an enormous expense. It has all sorts of embedded video, graphics, check quizzes, and the most modern technical benefits to improve student learning we now have in online education. When I have had students come to me from the online course and take the final exam in front of me, I have rarely had a student miss a single question. They really know the material.

Do you think this agency, whose advertised home office is a vacant lot in the Arizona desert, has that same level of instruction?

The SDA course says it works for all Scuba agencies, meaning it is not consistent with any one agency, whether it is PADI, NAUI, SSI, GUE, UTD....

As for SDA and the content of it's courses and whether or not it is the same as PADI's, SSI's, SDI's, NAUI's or Billy Joe Bob's Scubie Divin Learnin center. The fact is that a little research would have shown that it is not accepted in lieu of training within the agency's approved curriculum models. ...
Mr Falk's ire seems to be directed at the wrong people. The industry did not rip him off. PADI did not rip him off. No instructor on this board ripped him off. SDA did. ...

Did he research the on line entity thoroughly? Considering that it really is his son's life on the line.

Did he call and speak to someone at SDA and get assurances that the course would be accepted?
Sorry, Jim, but that would not have helped. I did call SDA personally, pretending to be a potential student, and I was clearly told that PADI would accept the program. He lies on the web site, and he will lie to your face.
Did he get on the phone and call local dive shops in his area to indeed verify SDA's claims?
That would have been the right thing to do.
 
Well, the only way to stop this parasite who hurts our sport is for more victims to file legal complaints and demand refunds from credit cards. I hope Jan does so.
 
As matter of curiosity I checked out what the prices were.

Unfortunately, I can't get the price in US$ but in the UK you'd be paying the equivalent of US$134 to do the official PADI eLearning for Open Water Diver instead of US$90 for the SDA version.
 
Thanks for happy wishes, I contacted my credit card, and of course I will take care of it, I was looking for input on legitimacy of this provider, instead I got: "So, your son wanted to get certified and you, what, found the cheapest and easiest online class available that you could do from the comfort of your home, didn't do much research, if any, because you chose an SDA certification, and when you google SDA, the third and fourth hits are folks questioning the quality of the agency, and now you want to know if it's legit? Take some responsibility here for yourself. It's what diving is about"

How dare you. Who you think you are saying "take some responsibility", guess what, I am a licensed psychotherapist and give advice on parenting- and my son found the course for himself, and I applaud him looking for the best deal, cause guess what, it is identical, the online portion. And YES< I absolutely do take offense to your irresponsible comments.
 
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