"Open Water Diver Safe Cavern Dives" ???

[Peter Guy]

Nimoh -- your definition is NOT the official "cave diving" definition. IF the water doesn't reach the ceiling, is isn't an overhead -- it is "open water."

A "Cavern" is that part of the cave that is "X" number of feet (vertical/horizontal) from "open water" and/or that part of the cave where daylight is "visible." ("Visible" is in quote marks because what might be "visible" can be VERY dim!)

For cave diving purposes, the cavern IS part of the cave and IS an overhead environment.

 

[Scuba_Noob]

I've never been in an overhead environment, other than sometimes being well underneath the dive boat. I've had the option to go under short swim-throughs and longer overhead environments, but I've always declined because a) I don't have the training; b) I don't have the necessary gear; and c) I don't have the necessary comfort to deal with emergencies in an overhead environment.

Some people see it as being extra safe. I see it as just being cautious and careful with my life.

 

[mainedvr]

Nimoh -- your definition is NOT the official "cave diving" definition. IF the water doesn't reach the ceiling, is isn't an overhead -- it is "open water."

A "Cavern" is that part of the cave that is "X" number of feet (vertical/horizontal) from "open water" and/or that part of the cave where daylight is "visible." ("Visible" is in quote marks because what might be "visible" can be VERY dim!)


For cave diving purposes, the cavern IS part of the cave and IS an overhead environment.

I was looking at the NSS CDS Cavern work book and it gives a pictoral of the cavern enviroment and shows what you pointed out. The big thing I noticed is just cause your with in the penetration limits of the cavern if you drop behind an obstruction that would no longer allow you to look back and directly see the light you have left the cavern zone. Just dive with in your training and that covers it.

 

[JamesK]

To piggyback on the cavern zone, at night if no light is coming through the entrance, a cavern becomes a cave in many peoples mind.

 

[gbf]

I am/was a NACD and NSS-CDS cave diver since the mid '70's, now retired and doing naught but vacation diving to see all the fishies and corals.

I don't do caverns, caves, swim-thrus or wreck penetrations.

and my family, who dives with me on vacation to the caribbean now, doesn't either.


That may sound a bit extreme, but it is just too easy for everything to turn to mush, instantaneously, in any overhead. Different strokes for different folks, but that is how we do it.

But, properly equipped and trained, it doesn't get any better than caverns and caves...

 

[Cave Diver]

Since I became an instructor it has been my standpoint that proper training is needed regardless of how "safe" these caverns appear to be.

As a minor point of interest (at least to me) what was your standpoint before you became in instructor in this regard?

 

[j2s]

Who's said Paradise is a 'safe' cavern at the OW level ????......At 160' [w/an additional 20' for the small cave at the bottom] it requires deco stops....AOW level's shouldn't be allowed to dive there, let alone OW !!!!!...Last I heard the owners were only allowing Cavern/Nitrox cert's or higher, w/a buddy dive there.........

 

[mainedvr]

To piggyback on the cavern zone, at night if no light is coming through the entrance, a cavern becomes a cave in many peoples mind.

Obviously there are not real scuba police if some wants to do a certain dive I suppose the will do it regardless. As much as I love to dive, I love to live even more, and the gudelines that are set such as what you pointed out above are there from many decades of experience and diver recoverys, and well they make sense with out even much thought. So I would think if you are not able to see the light at the end of the tunnle or the beginning in this case in my mind its a cave and no longer a cavern. I guess I wouldnt mind finding a loop hole in a law or rule if it got me out of a traffic ticket or something and maybe that is hypocritacl but I think when ones own personl safety and that of others is at stake time to live by the letter of the "law" so to speak.

Are all the cave diving agencies definition of a cavern the same? Only familiar with the NSS CDS

 

[Bob DBF]

Depends on the OW diver. I was an active OW diver for 29 years, during that time I exceeded the the certs I hold now, but I did not blindly attempt any underwater activity for myself or anyone else.

An OW diver should be able to make reasoned decisions on what dives they will make. Unfortunatly agencies teach rules and everyone knows that rules are made to be broken.

My hat is off to Scuba Noob and any other diver that makes informed decision on the dives they will or will not make.



Bob
-----------------------
A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan

 

[DevonDiver]

How PADI define a cavern:

Cavern diving is defined as any dive conducted within the light zone of a cave. Cave diving is any dive conducted beyond the light zone of a cave. The light zone of a cave is defined as that part of the cave from which natural light illuminating the entrance is visible at all times.

How PADI define the limits of their cavern diving instruction:

This certification means that you will be able to plan, organize, conduct and log dives in which you safely explore caverns that fall within the stated limitations of cavern diver training and that offer conditions as good as the caverns in which you were trained. The limitations of cavern diver training and certification are:


• No dives outside of daylight hours.
• No dives outside of direct sight of the cavern entrance.
• No dives beyond a linear distance of 40 metres/130 feet from the surface (depth to the entrance plus penetration distance).
• No dives requiring planned stage decompression.
• No dives that require divers to pass through restrictions (places too narrow to allow divers to pass through side-by-side or piggyback).
• Dives below a depth of 21 metres/70 feet are not recommended