PADI Sidemount Training

[Aotus]

A picture is worth 1,000 words, after all. On top of that, you brand it with a training agency, then yes, you're going to get some nitpicking.

 

[kafkaland]

I took a PADI sidemount course with my LDS, mostly to get ready to do Intro Cave on vacation in PDC. And I must say I felt a little short changed with the course. Technically, it was according to PADI standards, we did all the required drills, the dives had the required minimum duration, etc., and I fellt I could safely, but not necessarily comfortably, dive in a sidemount configuration. But once I started the cave training with a meticulous instructor, I knew how much more I could, and probably should have gotten out of the sidemount course. The instructor in the sidemount course had many laudable qualities, and had been a fine instructor for decades, but, as odd as it may seem, never done anything technical, as in ever been in any overhead environment, or ever done a deco dive. And I think that affected how he taught the course, with me as the only student, but a somewhat different objective.

To me it seems like the advanced recreational PADI courses - I can talk first-hand about sidemount and ice, but I hear the same about cavern and wreck - are really "discover" sidemount / ice / cavern / wreck courses. Which may be fine if you have a good experienced buddy and mentor who will guide you through the finer points afterwards, but it misses the typical PADI audience of the recreational diver who got into the sport as a vacation diver and eventually wants more, but isn't connected well enough to the local scene to get the follow-up mentoring that would be needed after these teaser courses.

 

[Aotus]

To me it seems like the advanced recreational PADI courses - I can talk first-hand about sidemount and ice, but I hear the same about cavern and wreck - are really "discover" sidemount / ice / cavern / wreck courses. Which may be fine if you have a good experienced buddy and mentor who will guide you through the finer points afterwards, but it misses the typical PADI audience of the recreational diver who got into the sport as a vacation diver and eventually wants more, but isn't connected well enough to the local scene to get the follow-up mentoring that would be needed after these teaser courses.

That's a good summation of how I feel about the PADI cavern class. We shouldn't go so far as to say that all Padi instructors teach in this way, but without regulation and more stringent standards in such a huge agency, there are bound to be a lot of divers with similar stories. "Discover cavern" should be the title of the padi class I took (though the $$$ is the same as a legit cavern class), and students should be discouraged from conducting cavern dive after the "discover" class without supervision.

 

[karstdvr]

That's a good summation of how I feel about the PADI cavern class. We shouldn't go so far as to say that all Padi instructors teach in this way, but without regulation and more stringent standards in such a huge agency, there are bound to be a lot of divers with similar stories. "Discover cavern" should be the title of the padi class I took (though the $$$ is the same as a legit cavern class), and students should be discouraged from conducting cavern dive after the "discover" class without supervision.

Not all PADI cavern classes are useless,I got a PADI cavern card from some guy named Jarrod Jablonski-wonder if he is any good???

PADI used to require their cavern instructors to have only intro cert, do approx. 20 dives, and pay the requisite fee and you were a cavern instructor. This held the PADI cavern cert in question,and so when people would show up for intro without much skill, instructors would reject these certs. I know some accomplished cave divers who were OWSI that taught cavern through PADI,and they had a top notch class,but then this level of proficiency is not advertised. Unfortunately the same thing seems to be happening with sidemount training. Buy the gear, take a class with a course director, and next weekend you are teaching sidemount-caveat emptor.

 

[boulderjohn]

I really don't think the PADI photo was anything other than a glitch by their marketing / Web department.

When a group of us wrote an article about teaching new OW students while neutrally buoyant and horizontal rather than on their knees, we supplied some pictures with suggested captions. When the final layout was done, some of those pictures got posted, but without the captions that explained the key concept in the pictures. Needing to jazz up the main page, the layout editor decided a nice, big, colorful photo would look good, so he put in a stock photo of an OW class--on their knees.

When our shop introduced a new class, TecReational diving, we sent out an email announcement to everyone on the shop mailing list. The class focuses on horizontal trim and buoyancy, and it includes advanced kicking techniques (frog kick, modified frog kick, modified flutter kick, back kick, and helicopter turn). It is similar to an intro to tech class. When the email went out, the tech person who laid it out and sent it decided it needed a nice, big, colorful photo. He saw the word "buoyancy" in the blurb, so he added a stock photo of someone doing the Buddha hover--precisely the opposite of what the class was about. I suspect that everyone who was seriously interested in taking a class like that dismissed it out of hand after seeing that photo.

 

[kafkaland]

Not all PADI cavern classes are useless,I got a PADI cavern card from some guy named Jarrod Jablonski-wonder if he is any good???

PADI used to require their cavern instructors to have only intro cert, do approx. 20 dives, and pay the requisite fee and you were a cavern instructor. This held the PADI cavern cert in question,and so when people would show up for intro without much skill, instructors would reject these certs. I know some accomplished cave divers who were OWSI that taught cavern through PADI,and they had a top notch class,but then this level of proficiency is not advertised. Unfortunately the same thing seems to be happening with sidemount training. Buy the gear, take a class with a course director, and next weekend you are teaching sidemount-caveat emptor.

Of course not all PADI cavern (or sidemount) classes are useless. The instructor makes or breaks the class. But for the cavern course there is a real difference in standards between the agencies: PADI does not allow OOA drills in the cavern overhead, nor does PADI allow the use of doubles in that course. When I took the cavern course, I already knew that I wanted to go on to intro cave, where OOA drills and doubles are de rigeur. So I took the IANTD cavern course with a full cave instructor, and the transition to intro cave was seamless as I could dive the same configuration (sidemounted doubles in my case), and had already done a lot OOA drills in the cavern. This would not have been possible under the PADI standards.

 

[Omisson]

I took a PADI sidemount course with my LDS, mostly to get ready to do Intro Cave on vacation in PDC. And I must say I felt a little short changed with the course. Technically, it was according to PADI standards, we did all the required drills, the dives had the required minimum duration, etc., and I fellt I could safely, but not necessarily comfortably, dive in a sidemount configuration. But once I started the cave training with a meticulous instructor, I knew how much more I could, and probably should have gotten out of the sidemount course. The instructor in the sidemount course had many laudable qualities, and had been a fine instructor for decades, but, as odd as it may seem, never done anything technical, as in ever been in any overhead environment, or ever done a deco dive. And I think that affected how he taught the course, with me as the only student, but a somewhat different objective.

To me it seems like the advanced recreational PADI courses - I can talk first-hand about sidemount and ice, but I hear the same about cavern and wreck - are really "discover" sidemount / ice / cavern / wreck courses. Which may be fine if you have a good experienced buddy and mentor who will guide you through the finer points afterwards, but it misses the typical PADI audience of the recreational diver who got into the sport as a vacation diver and eventually wants more, but isn't connected well enough to the local scene to get the follow-up mentoring that would be needed after these teaser courses.

Did you take the Tec or Rec PADI Sidemount class? Did you have at least Tec 40 beforehand ?

 

[boulderjohn]

We have certainly shifted topics if we are talking about the PADI cavern class.

In my view, the PADI cavern class, which I am certified to teach, has the purpose of allowing a recreational diver to dive certain caverns safely. That's the goal.

A year or so ago I had someone ask me if I would teach him cavern. I asked why he wanted to take it, and he said he wanted to go all the way to cave diver eventually. I told him I would not teach the class, because I felt if that was his goal, he should start his training with a cave instructor who could take him beyond that and who could teach him with that goal in mind. He followed that advice.

Not many people know it, but PADI does have a cave certification program that is pretty much the same as other cave certification programs, and the people who are certified to teach it are also certified to teach the more well known cave certification courses. It would be OK, IMO, to take your PADI cavern under such an instructor if you are intending to go on.

 

[Colliam7]

I took a PADI sidemount course with my LDS . . . I must say I felt a little short changed with the course. Technically, it was according to PADI standards, we did all the required drills, the dives had the required minimum duration, etc., and I fellt I could safely, but not necessarily comfortably, dive in a sidemount configuration. But once I started the cave training with a meticulous instructor, I knew how much more I could, and probably should have gotten out of the sidemount course.

I would very much like to know more about what you think should have been included in the recreation Sidemount Diver course, that you did not get. That kind of information would be particularly helpful to me, and probably other instructors as well. Maybe, a better question is what DID you specifically get from your cave training, with regard to sidemount, that you would have liked to get in the sidemount course - i.e. the 'much more' that you mention? And, I don't ask the question with the intention of disagreeing with, picking nits with, or 'attacking' whatever you put in your reply. Rather, I am genuinely interested in what people might generally and specifically expect from the course, and where what is currently contained in the standards may be at variance with those reasonable, general expectations. What would have made a difference in getting you to the point where you felt you could dive not only 'safely' but 'comfortably' as well?

The instructor in the sidemount course . . . had been a fine instructor for decades, but . . . never done anything technical, as in ever been in any overhead environment, or ever done a deco dive. And I think that affected how he taught the course, with me as the only student, but a somewhat different objective.

And, there are many scuba instructors - independent of agency - who would be accurately described as 'a fine instructor' but also as someone who has 'never done anything technical' or 'ever done a deco dive'. That does, however, beg the question: although the PADI Sidemount Diver course is 'recreational' by definition and standards (depth limits, no overhead environment, no decompression, etc), it does involve the use of double cylinders. Should technical dive training be a pre-requisite for certification as a recreational sidemount instructor? I had technical training and certification before become an Open Water Instructor to begin with. And, I viscerally feel that backgrounds helps me as an Instructor, in general. But, I have heretofore been somewhat reluctant to suggest that we 'pile on' more pre-requisites. You make a very good point - I think you probably did have a somewhat different objective, and perhaps that particular instructor may not have been the best fit, for you.

the typical PADI audience of the recreational diver who got into the sport as a vacation diver and eventually wants more, but isn't connected well enough to the local scene to get the follow-up mentoring that would be needed after these teaser courses.

Hmm. Now, I am not sure I am familiar with that particular audience, nor have any reason to believe it is somehow 'typical' of PADI divers, or NAUI / SDI / SSI divers for that matter. Of course, I have always worked with an inland dive shop, got into the sport and trained through such a shop, where there was an active dive club. So, I may just have a skewed perspective.

 

[kafkaland]

I would very much like to know more about what you think should have been included in the recreation Sidemount Diver course, that you did not get. That kind of information would be particularly helpful to me, and probably other instructors as well. Maybe, a better question is what DID you specifically get from your cave training, with regard to sidemount, that you would have liked to get in the sidemount course - i.e. the 'much more' that you mention? And, I don't ask the question with the intention of disagreeing with, picking nits with, or 'attacking' whatever you put in your reply. Rather, I am genuinely interested in what people might generally and specifically expect from the course, and where what is currently contained in the standards may be at variance with those reasonable, general expectations. What would have made a difference in getting you to the point where you felt you could dive not only 'safely' but 'comfortably' as well?

I'm happy to answer the question from my personal perspective, the particular instruction I got, my perhaps somewhat differing diving goals, and what I think could have saved me some time and frustration down the road.

The sidemount course was short - an hour in the classroom, maybe an hour and a half in the pool, and three twenty-something minutes dives in the local quarry, in the 50-70ft. range, cold water with dry suit. It ticked off all the PADI standards in terms of skills and drills, as far as I can tell.

I used rental gear from the LDS for the course, as I was still unsure what to buy. Everything was set up for me; a Nomad harness and LP105s with stage rigging. The course felt easy, I almost thought: that's all there is to sidemount diving? Why do we even need a course? Shortly thereafter, I got my own rig (Halcyon contour, with the tank rigging kit) and off to Mexico I was, for some fun dives in my new rig. Was able to get some AL-80s with sidemount valves there, a dive op that was ok with me diving in sidemount, and the realization that I had no clue of how to properly trim out the rig. Bungees around the tank valve were as alien to me as the idea that you can move the bottom bolt snap forward when the tanks get floaty. Nor did I know how to determine how high to put the cam band, exactly where the bolt snap should go, etc. I eventually got most of it figured out, by trial and error and asking around a lot, but it was frustrating as I completely lacked the tool kit to get myself trimmed out with a different rig and tanks than what I used during the course. There were some other minor issues, mostly sloppiness regarding gear configuration and air-sharing procedures that I had to fix before or at at the beginning of the cave course, but in some way they can also be attributed to to just using things and procedures the way the course instructor did. without fully understanding alternatives and rationales.

So if there is one thing I wish I would have gotten out of my sidemount course is the ability to actually use the flexibility that configuration offers, and apply it to my diving, instead of the more narrow "this is how I do it, and it ought to be good enough for you as well" approach.