PerroneFord changed my thinking, n maybe even saved my life.

[RonzoTheGreat]

.... I have not been trained to deco dive. So I do not know how to calculate deco dives. I rely on the computer and dive a profile that includes ascending to shallower depths when the computer indicates the "risk of deco" is near... .

scary ... many people bash padi and naui and whoever else ... some think that all the ldss do is push training and classes to make money ...

but to think that this diving brother of mine is diving to 150' without deco training because "he's only there for a few moments" seems a bit naive.

am i wrong?

and perrone is pretty well respected (by me as well as others) but i am a bit surprised he is sharing this advice knowing the person he is teaching it to, is not properly trained for this kind of dive.

please forgive me if i am over reacting, and dont come back with a rant about me not knowing what i am talking about, if i am wrong, simplt point it out and make some detailed statements as to why i am wrong, i am an adult and would like to discuss this, not argue back and forth about it ...

thanks and please advise as to your reaction to this thought

 

[doole]

am i wrong?

Probably not.

 

[danvolker]

scary ... many people bash padi and naui and whoever else ... some think that all the ldss do is push training and classes to make money ...

but to think that this diving brother of mine is diving to 150' without deco training because "he's only there for a few moments" seems a bit naive.

am i wrong?

and perrone is pretty well respected (by me as well as others) but i am a bit surprised he is sharing this advice knowing the person he is teaching it to, is not properly trained for this kind of dive.

please forgive me if i am over reacting, and dont come back with a rant about me not knowing what i am talking about, if i am wrong, simplt point it out and make some detailed statements as to why i am wrong, i am an adult and would like to discuss this, not argue back and forth about it ...

thanks and please advise as to your reaction to this thought

My take on this....Internet diving forums are largely about disseminating information on how to do things....Perrone would certainly not tell anyone to forego training, and to exclusively use the internet to learn diving....I believe that the ideas and techniques of decompression diving should not be hidden unless someone pays to hear them.......but --each individual needs to be smart enough to be adding this to their knowledge, with good divers helping them who already have the skill, who can either instruct them formally, or mentor them.
A diver with poor open water skills-- who reads Perrones ideas and trys a decompression dive on this, is a Darwin candidate, period.
Concern for Darwin candidates can not be allowed to restrict the flow of good information to divers who are making all the right choices.

Regards,
Dan V

 

[PerroneFord]

Dan is on the right path here.

This is an internet forum. And a public one at that. Do not judge the iceberg from what you see visible from the surface. There is a more going on here than you might see written in this forum.

 

[opti12206]

Based on the Navy dive tables you can dive to 150 feet for 5 min before you need deco stops. Diving down that deep for a few moments is risky, but not a decompression dive assuming you do not stay to long.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I]all depths of 140-150ft… bottom times only in the teens… and here's what my computer told me to do:

“stop at 30 feet for one minute…stop at 20 feet for 3 minutes…stop at 10 feet for SIX minutes!” (We’re NOT talking “deco stops!” I never went into deco. We are talking “micro bubble offgassing stops” that added a FULL TEN MINUTES of time just to offgas before gettin out of the water!)

Summary: According to my nitrogen loading bar on my computer, I left the water with LESS nitrogen loaded than I EVER have in the past! I left the water with CNS leves of 0 or 1%… and I left the water and felt physically GOOD on the boat all day. Most important.. perhaps for the first time since I began spearfishing a year ago (from a standpoint of nitrogen offgassing)…was diving SAFE. Thankyou, Perrone.

Not to sound too harsh, but you indicate that you have no idea how to plan a deco dive. Well it is not that hard and you need to learn how to do it, so If you end up in deco you will be prepared. I'm glad you are diving safer and are doing a deep stop and using a pony.

But to be honest, anyone who is doing 4 repet dives to 140-150' (presumably on air) is NOT diving "SAFE". I'm not saying that you should stop diving like that, it sounds like great fun! but you honestly need to relaize that even with a slow ascent, that diving to those depths repeatedly in a day is pretty dangerous.

 

[bamamedic]

Based on the Navy dive tables you can dive to 150 feet for 5 min before you need deco stops. Diving down that deep for a few moments is risky, but not a decompression dive assuming you do not stay to long.

True, true...but what if you get tangled in some monofilament, or something else conspires to keep you at 150 feet for a bit longer? Poof...a decompression dive

 

[Scared Silly]

Based on the Navy dive tables you can dive to 150 feet for 5 min before you need deco stops. Diving down that deep for a few moments is risky, but not a decompression dive assuming you do not stay to long.

True, true...but what if you get tangled in some monofilament, or something else conspires to keep you at 150 feet for a bit longer? Poof...a decompression dive

Every dive is a decompression dive - some just have more stops and in different place than others. Which is really what this discussion is about - how does one best manage that.

 

[mos11b1p]

WOW! I had no idea what I started here. This scubaboard is all new to me. I don't dive to 150' four times in a day. Infact... I can count the number of times I've been to 150' ON ONE HAND! (I start to narc at around 135' so the only reason I would EVER go beyond is, 1: if visibility permits it, and 2: if I SEE SOMETHING to shoot that is beyond. These two things RARELY are in place.)

Im sorry, DIR, but in spearfishing, a "dive plan" simply CAN NOT be followed. You are there to find a nice fish and shoot him. He may be at 40 feet and you come back to the boat 10 minutes later with 1900 pounds of air. Or he may be at 140' feet and you are only minutes away from going into "deco" in order to get him up to shallower depths after the shot. So it's "reactionary" diving where you watch your SPG and your divecomputer like a hawk. There are a couple "rules of thumb" I apply as do most of my "spearfishing mentors". We go "deep" right off the bat... let the air out of the BC and drop straight down as quickly as possible on a "full tank" If you've got a shot at say 150'... you will have it immediately (either he's THERE or he's NOT) You take the shot. If you hit him, you got minutes to drag him up to say 120' and still not come close to going into deco. If you MISS... well... the time it took me to get there, see him, take the shot, and miss, I've used up my time... I've burned at least a minute and half there...I don't have another 45 seconds to reload my gun and try again. I just come back up. Period.

It is not DIR diving. The more I learn about diving.. the more I realize how risky this spearfishing sport REALLY IS. For example...how many people diving have ever contemplated that fact that at 5bar... a 1st stage regulator failure = "empty tank in about 12 seconds." I didn't know a 1st stage even COULD fail!

So I am beginning the journey of becoming a TEC diver starting this very up and coming week. My double AL80's are built. My DIN is installed. Leak checked in the bathtub. Everything is a "go." I'm "test driving" them in the training pool THIS VERY AFTERNOON (excited) and spending three whole days (Thurs thru Sun coming up) of diving in Marianna, FL with a cave instructor to do cavern and intro cave, back to back. (We'll be staying in Ed's trailer. Come out an visit us. And finally...am listening CLOSELY to people like Perrone and others who are pointing out ALL SORTS of stuff I was unaware of. "Ignorance is bliss" I guess. Now I am realizing MANY things. My goal is to become a VERY proficient, safe, highly redundant techinical diver so that I may CONTINUE to do what I do on the oil rigs off the shore of Louisiana...only safer. I think the "cave divers" I have met are the best trained, safest, and most technically proficient divers I've ever spoken to. So I want to learn from them an apply it to "my kind" of diving.

 

[PerroneFord]

mos11b1p,

I was at JB today and thought about you. I appreciate that you are coming to this thing from the back end. You're already DOING the dives and are trying to do it more safely. Usually, people take the training in order to do the dives.

Hopefully, people will help you along this path and not block it by withholding information that could help you become a safer and better diver. I agree with you. The cave divers I've met and worked with have been incredibly helpful to me. I'd be nowhere in this game without them.