Wanted Poseidon, Jet Stream, first stage

[Tracy]

I am honestly not sure. I need first stages compatible pressure-wise,with an IP pressure that won't trigger the OPVs in my first stage hoses. I want to use them withh the Jet stream 'shower head' style first stages

Either of those will do that.

 

[Paul Desmarais]

I am honestly not sure. I need first stages compatible pressure-wise,with an IP pressure that won't trigger the OPVs in my first stage hoses. I want to use them withh the Jet stream 'shower head' style first stages

I would be interested in discussing further.

Can we set up a time for voice call or zoom chat?

 

[Paul Desmarais]

Those integral OP valves on the older hoses were never rated for just 8.5 bar (123 psi); nor, for that matter, was the Jetstream (Odin) model second stage. It typically ran at 10 bar (145 psi or so), since the 1980s-on. Fully-functional hoses would vent at about 14 bar (just over 200 psi), in the event of a first stage failure -- just like the built-in OP valves on more recent first stages.

My Odins are happiest at 10 bar, per specs, and those hose OPVs are as quiet as the dead. If they had been absurdly rated for far lower, my regulators would have been venting like ill-tuned VWs.

On a previous post, I mentioned the Thor, which was an early Jetstream second stage, attached to a so-called "300" model first (a 2940), usually associated as being a "Cyklon" second stage -- basically, your planned set-up, so far as I can tell. It was equipped with those OP valves in the hoses, just like yours. It was also rated for a maximum pressure of 12.5 bar (about 181 psi), according to the service manual.

I used that for set-up for years, without issue, and have lived to tell the tale.

No leaks; no incidents of overpressure. You have either an incompetent tech (which is far-too common nowadays, especially with the given brand) or perhaps even a damaged first stage; probably a poorly-tuned second as well. Could be a failing seat; crossed threads; damaged sealing surfaces; or, simply a filthily-performed rebuild -- something that Poseidon regulators just will not tolerate. All will negatively affect the IP.

Dollars to doughnuts, you have a creeping or improper IP from one source or another -- simple maladjustment; damage, dirt, metal shavings from ham-handed stripping; and if you’re truly set upon using Jetstreams, you’ll also need their specific hoses, since those for your Cyklon are also specialized and will not fit the other.

Below is an HP seat from a Cyklon 5000 -- touted as being "just serviced by a reputable LDS" -- whose IP had been all over the map, much like yours. It finally came down to a previous tech, either not cleaning anything very well, during an overhaul, and/or introducing metal shards after partially stripping some threads. That tiny splinter of brass in the notch, compromised the seal.

Upon initially opening the valve, it exceeded 14 bar (over 200 psi) within seconds -- and those hose-mounted OPVs were putting away.

Addendum:

Just looking at your regulator, once more, on the top-right, I can all-but guarantee that the IP is set too high -- just from the position of the "pressure adjusting screw" at its center. All of my 300s -- about a dozen in all, all properly set -- have that screw, just about flush with the cover for a properly-torqued valve housing (last photo), if not just slightly above; and none are that far below that surface, as yours appears to be.

It is a very thin screw in that older model and it takes little to over-tighten it . . .

Based on your information, maybe it would be prudent to invest in new hoses.

 

[Bigbella]

Based on your information, maybe it would be prudent to invest in new hoses.

I would look to the simplest explanation first and just verify what your intermediate pressure happens to be, before buying any expensive hoses.

Just pick up a cheap-o IP gauge; attach it to your inflator hose, and open the valve -- so simple. It is truly something that everyone should have in their kit, even if you never work on your own gear. It can quickly determine whether a first stage is simply off-specs, poorly-tuned (solvable with the use of a twenty-five cent Allen key); or, whether there's an obvious drift (an increase in pressure) and, potentially, a more serious internal problem, such as a damaged piston, o-rings, or even a failing HP seat.

The maximum IP for a Cyklon 300 is 12.5 bar / 181 PSI, though it's typically set only to 12. The tuning for that model is only done on a nearly empty tank, @ 20 bar (around 270 PSI) and I truly wonder whether your "tech" ever did that. On a full tank (200-300 bar), the IP should be a bit lower, since it is an unbalanced model -- typically, anywhere between 8 (116 PSI), and 10 bar (145 PSI). Most of mine hover at 9 bar.

Just let it sit, under pressure, for a few minutes and see whether there's a drift; or to determine whether the IP was just way off, from the very start.

My money is still on that second reason . . .

 

[Paul Desmarais]

Those integral OP valves on the older hoses were never rated for just 8.5 bar (123 psi); nor, for that matter, was the Jetstream (Odin) model second stage. It typically ran at 10 bar (145 psi or so), since the 1980s-on. Fully-functional hoses would vent at about 14 bar (just over 200 psi), in the event of a first stage failure -- just like the built-in OP valves on more recent first stages.

My Odins are happiest at 10 bar, per specs, and those hose OPVs are as quiet as the dead. If they had been absurdly rated for far lower, my regulators would have been venting like ill-tuned VWs.

Admittedly, Poseidon has futzed with their specs a bit over the years.

On a previous post, I mentioned the Thor, which was an early Jetstream second stage, attached to a so-called "300" model first (a 2940), usually associated as being a "Cyklon" second stage -- basically, your planned set-up, so far as I can tell. It was equipped with those OP valves in the hoses, just like yours. It was also rated for a maximum pressure of 12.5 bar (about 181 psi), according to the service manual.

I used that for set-up for years, without issue, and have lived to tell the tale.

No leaks; no incidents of overpressure. You have either an incompetent tech (which is far-too common nowadays, especially with the given brand) or perhaps even a damaged first stage; probably a poorly-tuned second as well. Could be a failing seat; crossed threads; damaged sealing surfaces; or, simply a filthily-performed rebuild -- something that Poseidon regulators just will not tolerate. All will negatively affect the IP.

Dollars to doughnuts, you have a creeping or improper IP from one source or another -- simple maladjustment; damage, dirt, metal shavings from ham-handed stripping; and if you’re truly set upon using Jetstreams, you’ll also need their specific hoses, since those for your Cyklon are also specialized and will not fit the other.

Below is an HP seat from a Cyklon 5000 -- touted as being "just serviced by a reputable LDS" -- whose IP had been all over the map, much like yours. It finally came down to a previous tech, either not cleaning anything very well, during an overhaul, and/or introducing metal shards after partially stripping some threads. That tiny splinter of brass in the notch, compromised the seal.

Upon initially opening the valve, it exceeded 14 bar (over 200 psi) within seconds -- and those hose-mounted OPVs were putting away.

Addendum:

Just looking at your regulator, once more, on the top-right, I can all-but guarantee that the IP is set too high -- just from the position of the "pressure adjusting screw" at its center. All of my 300s -- about a dozen in all, all properly set -- have that screw, just about flush with the cover for a properly-torqued valve housing (last photo), if not just slightly above; and none are that far below that surface, as yours appears to be.

It is a very thin screw in that older model and it takes little to over-tighten it . . .

Thank you for the info on the adjusting screw. I don't work on my gear. I get 'the guy' to do it because while I am handy when it comes ot macro work (I do carpentry and suuch) micro work is hard, I'm a little clumsy in the fine motor department. Iwill visit with the tech who worked on it and ahre what you shared with me. He is very knowledgable, he discussed the pressure differewntial issue with me, but said he adjusted it. It's worth another chat, anyway. I really appreciate all the information - it is good to better understand how the gear works.