Question about equipment maintenance and repair

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You guys sure love the car analogy, too bad it's so full of B.S. Scuba gear simply does not wear in the same fashion that cars do and is MUCH less expensive to repair.
You're almost right here. Most Scuba Gear just sits, and it sits for longish periods of time. Do that with a car and you'll find it's not nearly as reliable. Grease, even crystolube separates over time and the volatiles evaporate leaving a thick sticky residue. This inhibits the internal parts from operating like they should. It's my opinion that regs that just sit for long periods of time should be thoroughly cleaned and re-lubed. This being America, you are free to take your chances and sue others when you get hurt.

The 'free parts for life' scam is one of the bedrock sales gimmicks of the scuba gear industry, and still SP decided to abandon it.
O rly? You are wrong on both counts. FPL is not a scam and SP has not abandoned it. I have to wonder why people make statements which sound full of bravisimo but are ultimately full of crap. BTW, I agree that keeping a new regulator up to date is often less expensive than trying to rehab on old one. Heck, I do my own rebuilds and am handed old regs all the time. Most of them are simply relegated to the Old Reg bin. They've got verdigris where there should not be any and they simply aren't worth my time or the money in parts. Here's some advice the next time you are about to make such volatile statements...

:caveman:

Before someone asks: I don't do anyone else's regs but mine and Mselenaous'. ScaubaBoard and teaching keep me busy enough. I do teach reg repair for a couple of brands if you want to learn. It's a fun, day long class here in Key Largo.


 
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O rly? You are wrong on both counts. FPL is not a scam and SP has not abandoned it. I have to wonder why people make statements which sound full of bravisimo but are ultimately full of crap. BTW, I agree that keeping a new regulator up to date is often less expensive than trying to rehab on old one.


Whether the 'free' parts for life program is a scam or not is a matter of opinion. IMO it's a scam. You're free to disagree of course. It's definitely more expensive to an average diver (say 50 dives/year or fewer) to follow this program than to simply service a reg when it needs it, provided the reg gets decent care. It's also definitely true that rebuild kits priced at $30 or more are marked up beyond any reasonable cost of manufacture and distribution. It is a fact that SP has recently changed their policy on free parts for life so that purchasers of new regulators no longer get the program. Now you have to buy both a regulator and a BC. (or computer, I believe) And current owners can no longer miss a year and get back in simply by paying for parts one year. That's definitely abandoning the policy IMO, although I suppose someone could argue that it's just 'modifying' it so that most customers don't qualify.

If most of the old regs you are asked to service get relegated to the 'Old Reg bin' then you're not probably much of a service tech, are you? And this whole business of 'keeping a regulator up to date vs 'trying to rehab' an old one is nonsense. The only difference between rebuilding new and old regs is that old ones might be dirtier, so you spend a little extra time cleaning them up. Big deal... Abused regs, new or old, that's a different story, but even they can often be put into service for a very small fraction of the cost of a new reg.

I understand you own this website and you want to protect your sponsors. But the whole idea of this forum is free exchange and open dialogue so that some of the mis-truths and disguised sales-pitches can be exposed for what they are. Unlike a dealer posting on this forum, I have zero economic interest in whether someone buys a new reg, keeps an old one, goes for one brand over another, etc.. When a dealer uses his posts on this forum for nothing more than sales pitches, those posts ought to be criticized.
 
Whether the 'free' parts for life program is a scam or not is a matter of opinion. IMO it's a scam.
It doesn't meet any legal criteria of being a scam and I dare you to prove it differently. Instead of discussing things amiably, you want to start trash talking things you don't like or agree with. It's disingenuous to call something a scam that isn't. It's ironic that you are accusing ScubaPro of lying by resorting to telling a lie. That's libelous and hypocrisy at it's finest. Unfortunately, in this industry we have a pervasive attitude that if we don't sell it, teach it or dive it, then it must be junk. It's time we broke away from that sophomoric baditude and start to approach things reasonably.

It is a fact that SP has recently changed their policy on free parts for life
Oh, so now it's "changed" and not "abandoned". You either don't communicate clearly or you're set on distorting the facts to bolster your unsubstantiated rant. The former is unfortunate and the latter is libelous and again: just another lie.

If most of the old regs you are asked to service get relegated to the 'Old Reg bin' then you're not probably much of a service tech, are you?
Not one that you'll get to use. Let's be realistic, it's obvious to me from this that your standards are a lot lower than mine when it comes to regulators. That's OK. You can take the beat up ol' Chevy route and I'll take the Cadillac route. I won't hate or disparage you for settling for less and I certainly don't understand your need to vilify me for wanting the best and not wasting my time on gear that has past it's prime. It's why you don't see me in the vintage divers group very often.

And this whole business of 'keeping a regulator up to date vs 'trying to rehab' an old one is nonsense.
So, just how many regulators have you rebuilt or rehabbed? Anyone who has serviced regs for a living can tell horror stories about abused and neglected regs. Everyone wants the technician to take out their magic wand and make that old pitted thing work like new! It's unreasonable to think that a reg with two or more years of crud, corrosion and pitting will be easier to rejuvenate than one only a year old. Do you think vipping tanks every year is a scam as well? Maybe you think that you should only service a tank when it's absolutely needed... like right after it explodes. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I didn't invent that saying, but I certainly believe it.

The only difference between rebuilding new and old regs is that old ones might be dirtier,
and pitted, and corroded, and stripped, and dented, and flooded, and put together backwards, and the list can go on. Again, you might want to do a little research. It's obvious you haven't seen many regs that come in for service or repair.

I understand you own this website and you want to protect your sponsors. But the whole idea of this forum is free exchange and open dialogue so that some of the mis-truths and disguised sales-pitches can be exposed for what they are. Unlike a dealer posting on this forum, I have zero economic interest in whether someone buys a new reg, keeps an old one, goes for one brand over another, etc.. When a dealer uses his posts on this forum for nothing more than sales pitches, those posts ought to be criticized.
Wow... now my integrity is being questioned by someone who has admittedly distorted the truth and defending that distortion. If I was truly as diabolical as you make out, I would have simply deleted the thread or any harsh comments. But, as you so clearly pointed out, this is a FREE exchange and OPEN dialogue which means my opinion counts just as much as yours. No more and certainly no less. While you might have "zero economic interest" it seems to me that you are trying to save face and defend the indefensible comments you just made. It's my opinion that you have a very naive view of regulator repair and what's entailed. That's your right and you also have the right to find the very cheapest route to have yours serviced at the intervals you want them to be serviced at. That doesn't make another approach a scam or even ill advised. Moreover, when I point out obvious inaccuracies in your posting, it doesn't make me some evil guy motivated by greed and trying to protect someone at all costs. I don't think the guy I am defending even advertises here: go figure. I just hate to see anyone needlessly bashed out of ignorance and spite.

To clarify, I don't spend a lot of time courting advertisers and I take great pride in not knowing everyone who is advertising with us. I have others do that. I spend my time on the community as well as teaching various aspects of Scuba.
 
NetDoc, You make some valid points in your first post. No, there are people that want nothing to do with there gear maintenance (some have no business at all doing there own maintenance) but there are some of us that do want to do our own. I think this is where most of the sour grapes come from. I am in the auto business and I also believe there are many similarities between the two, but one big difference is you can freely purchase parts and do all your own maintenance on your vehicles with out voiding your warranty. The automotive industry tried to adopt a system similar to the scuba industry many years ago and it was found to be unlawful, why is it different for scuba? When I made my original post in this thread I was not trying to start a flame war but just giving my opinion, Yes it did sound like a sales pitch to me and I'm sure that is how it was presented in the ScubaPro seminar (fact? I cant be sure, I was not there but I have been to enough seminars put on by manufacturers to know this is the main reason for the seminar in the first place.).
 
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NetDoc, You make some valid points in your first post. No, there are people that want nothing to do with there gear maintenance (some have no business at all doing there own maintenance) but there are some of us that do want to do our own. I think this is where most of the sower grapes come from. I am in the auto business and I also believe there are many similarities between the two, but one big difference is you can freely purchase parts and do all your own maintenance on your vehicles with out voiding your warranty. The automotive industry tried to adopt a system similar to the scuba industry many years ago and it was found to be unlawful, why is it different for scuba? When I made my original post in this thread I was not trying to start a flame war but just giving my opinion, Yes it did sound like a sales pitch to me and I'm sure that is how it was presented in the ScubaPro seminar (fact? I cant be sure, I was not there but I have been to enough seminars put on by manufacturers to know this is the main reason for the seminar in the first place.).
First, I don't know of any manufacturer that voids their warranty if you do your own service. No, you might invalidate the free parts for life feature, but working on your reg should not invalidate the warranty.

As for parts... it's a PITA. In the automotive arena there are lots and lots of aftermarket parts manufacturers which forces the OEMs' hands. Let's be realistic: regs just aren't that hard to rebuild. Any mechanic who can rebuild an E2SE GM Carb can do most any reg with their eyes closed. The biggest problem facing the Scuba Tech is where to get the parts. They are out there, but it can be problematical to find them... especially on the older and off brand regs. I need both first and second stage kits for my four stage bottle regs which were called "Cochran". Actually, I just need the seats and first stage diaphragm as I have enough o-rings to rebuild the Space Shuttle. All of them are now in the Old Reg bin and destined for naught until I happen across those items.

But if regs are neglected, BCs are grossly neglected. Most people don't service them at all until they fail and I find that alarming. Yes, I keep a spare inflator in my Save a Dive kit, but I also replace parts every year. I hardly ever have an issue with the BC that gets wet all the time... its the ones that just sit that seem to fail prematurely.
 
First, I don't know of any manufacturer that voids their warranty if you do your own service. No, you might invalidate the free parts for life feature, but working on your reg should not invalidate the warranty.


Taken from a major manufacturer's website...
Warranty coverage does not extend to damages caused by improper use, improper maintenance, neglect, unauthorized repairs, modifications, accidents, fire, casualty or normal wear and aging.

and another

In order to maintain this warranty, it is mandatory to perform annual service on the regulator by an Authorized Dealer service facility and maintain proof of service records.
For details on the warranty please consult an Authorized Dealer.

Maybe you should ask someone in the Q&A Forums?
 
Taken from a major manufacturer's website...

and another



Maybe you should ask someone in the Q&A Forums?

Howard, I'm sorry but questions like this are not allowed in the manufacturers Q&A forums, it's right in your special rules post:wink:.

---------- Post added ----------

As for parts... it's a PITA. In the automotive arena there are lots and lots of aftermarket parts manufacturers which forces the OEMs' hands. Let's be realistic: regs just aren't that hard to rebuild. Any mechanic who can rebuild an E2SE GM Carb can do most any reg with their eyes closed. The biggest problem facing the Scuba Tech is where to get the parts. They are out there, but it can be problematical to find them... especially on the older and off brand regs. I need both first and second stage kits for my four stage bottle regs which were called "Cochran". Actually, I just need the seats and first stage diaphragm as I have enough o-rings to rebuild the Space Shuttle. All of them are now in the Old Reg bin and destined for naught until I happen across those items.

This is my point exactly. Regs are not rocket science but the manufacturers will have you believing they are. They feed us all the "life support" stuff instead of coming out and being honest with us and say "it's just not in our or your local dive shop's best interest to openly sell parts". E2SE Carb? Whats that? I must not be old enough:wink:. I can rebuild a 6L40 trans though.
 
damages caused by i
Note the operative caveat. If you do something that does not DAMAGE the reg, then it's still under warranty.
 
NetDoc:
Note the operative caveat. If you do something that does not DAMAGE the reg, then it's still under warranty.

But you conveniently did not comment on the second set of warranty language which says you must have "...annual service by an authorized...".
 
Net Doc;

1. I did not accuse scubapro of lying.
2. I did not question your integrity.
3. I did not make you out to be 'diabolical.'
4. I did not vilify you.

Did you criticize me for not 'discussing amiably?':wink:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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