Questions about Dual bladder wings

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I'm a tropical seas diver and I dive both AL80's and steel 100's. I'm hot in a 3/2 wetsuit on the bottom, so there's no way I'm going to be comfortable in a drysuit. That leaves a choice between a lift bag/SMB and dual bladder wing for redundancy. I practice the backup bladder with both the LPI and the oral inflator, which requires the primary bladder to be flat empty to avoid damage (call it added realism). It's actually faster for me to stabilize with the oral inflator than to fuss with the LPI. I attach the hose once I'm stable and we're back in business. I shoot bags all the time, so I'm sure I could make the SMB work if I had to, but there are far fewer steps with the backup bladder (reduced task loading in an emergency is always a good thing) and no risk of entanglement.

Whatever your redundant technology is, you need to practice it.
 
the last time I dove with steel doubles was maybe 30 yrs ago. Don't think I had a power inflator back then
 
In the very second post kierentec warned of this being an ongoing heated debate.

Personally, I dive a balanced rig and don't use a dual bladder, but I don't have an issue with dual bladders and don't have the opinion that divers with dual bladders are wrong, just different.
 
In the very second post kierentec warned of this being an ongoing heated debate.

Personally, I dive a balanced rig and don't use a dual bladder, but I don't have an issue with dual bladders and don't have the opinion that divers with dual bladders are wrong, just different.

Very well put and totally agree. To each is their own.
 
Back to the original post... What's a good rig for a PADI tec student starting out?

PADI standards for tec doubles training require redundant buoyancy, there's no way around that. If you're in warm water, and don't want to be overheated in a drysuit, you will need a double bladder wing. The course standards don't permit an SMB.

Whether you're diving with steel doubles, or AL80's with weights, you will be substantially negative through most of the dive. You will need enough redundant lift to overcome this negative mass, no matter how well your rig is trimmed (balanced). One advantage of the double bladder wing is that it swims and trims exactly the same whether you're on primary or backup. Using a drysuit as the redundant buoyancy system to overcome the prevailing large negative buoyancy as you ascend into and hold your deco stops is a fairly advanced skill that will be a challenge to master while simultaneously learning all the new skills of the tec course. If you don't have a lot of experience using a drysuit as your primary buoyancy compensator, your first tec courses aren't the best time to learn that skill.

If you buy a dual bladder wing and decide later to go another route, you will still have a perfectly good wing. Your dive instructor should be able to help you pick out a suitable wing with the appropriate lift for the rig you will be diving.
 
If you are substantially negative with Al80s and weight, why wouldn't you reduce the amount of weight?

If you are substantially negative with steel tanks, why use steel tanks?
 
The lift bag idea is the most ridiculous of all. Do you really think you'll be able to get out and fill a lift bag as you're lawn-darting to the bottom?

The short answer to all this is al80s with the wetsuit, drysuit with everything else, and stay away from dual bladder wings and lift bags. Balanced rig and all that.

In fact, the lift bag redundancy was the solution employed by tech instructor, Andre Smith, in the Divers Supply Tripple Death Tragedy some maybe remember reading about in the late 90's. Andre and 3 students, all geared with heavy steels and stages, and using wet suits on a 280 foot deep dive....One student could not get neutral on the bottom, as his bungie wing kept letting air out through the OPV, before he could get enouhg air in the wing to get neutral.....Andre was heavy himself, and after the first mentioned student ran OOA and drowned on the bottom( without Andre offering him gas), Andre tried to get off the bottom by deploying a lift bag...which got away from him, leaving him too heavy to get off the bottom...There was one single surviver, so we actually know what happened. Andre ended up stripping his doulbles off and attempting a free ascent, but did not make it.
A "balanced rig" would have saved each of them. Dry suits instead of wetsuits would have saved each. The thick wetsuits with heavy steel was stupid. PADI needs to get their collective heads out of their asses and call bad gear combos, bad.....rather than coming up with nonsense like double bladders.

As a P.S... I also just remembered that the survivor also recounted that they were all suffering from hyperthermia on the dive, and he and Claypool barely had the strength left in their legs from this, to swim up to the shallower, warmer water.
Doing the 280 foot deep dives off of Palm Beach in the 90's, we began this with wet suits, but abandoned this after a few months( of course we used balanced rigs even then) because almost 1 third of the dives we would do in the summer would need to be aborted--it would be warm on the surface, but at 200 or so their would be an inversion or something going on, and the temp would be closer to high 50's. You could feel your feet almost instantly dissappearing/going numb, leaving you kicking your knees to make the fins push. In fact, in those early days, I would use a lycra suit as often as a wet suit, since at depth there was almost no difference in warmth. Deco would put the warmth advantage to the wet suit, but the entire bottom time the lycra was nicer because you could use almost no weight at all, so you had very nice bpuyancy and trim simplicity.
We switched to dry suits because having to cancel / abort a dive after all the planning and nonsense time wasting of doing a deep dive day like this, was very annoying.
 
Last edited:
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

Back
Top Bottom