Rebreather Diver dies in Pool in Oregon

[rawls]

Wow. You know, my heart goes out to any diver that loses his life, but the ******* in me believes in social darwinism as well. If this guy was literally "buying" certifications and not taking proper steps to insure his safety, then maybe the karmic powers that be finally evened him out.

I know it sounds harsh, but I'd rather an unsafe diver lose his own life rather than diving with me and jeapardizing my life in the process..

May all your dives be profound, zen-like meditations on the beauty of nature, and may you come back dumbfounded for any words which adequately describe your short trip down below.

D.

Sounds pretty harsh to me....You may want to take a look at the ******* in you. Just a suggestion...I just can't feel the "zen-like meditations on the beauty of nature" in your quote...Maybe it was there and I just missed it somehow?

 

[pt40fathoms]

incorrect.. CO2 sysmtoms come on pretty quickly, and hit hard.. You KNOW its happening but you might not be able to reason what to do..

Hypoxia comes on slowly and usually without notice and you fall asleep then die..

SCRs in shallow water without hot mixes are dangerous.. They should never be used alone.. AT least with most CCRs (electronic) as long as the electronics are on something is independently monitoring you..

I don't dive a rebreather yet, and it's very likely that my guess could be wrong. However, if a scrubber goes past it's usefull limit, and starts a slow build up of CO2, would you still see it coming and experience the buildup of CO2 as rapid? (honestly asking a question here) Or am I out to lunch on how a scrubber failure due to overuse would manifest itself?

 

[Supernal]

Wow. You know, my heart goes out to any diver that loses his life, but the ******* in me believes in social darwinism as well. If this guy was literally "buying" certifications and not taking proper steps to insure his safety, then maybe the karmic powers that be finally evened him out.

Well, some things are worth dying for, but I don't think a sport is one of them.

 

[Chuck Tribolet]

I don't dive a rebreather yet, and it's very likely that my guess could be wrong. However, if a scrubber goes past it's usefull limit, and starts a slow build up of CO2, would you still see it coming and experience the buildup of CO2 as rapid? (honestly asking a question here) Or am I out to lunch on how a scrubber failure due to overuse would manifest itself?

If the sorb is dying, it dies over quite a period of time, but the symptoms of hypercapnia
(high CO2 level) can come on quite suddenly. But those symptoms are such that you
don't like it and you want to get out of the water. With hypoxia (low O2 level) you just
go to sleep. I'm thinking hypoxia here, not hypercapnia. Low gas pressure in the bottle,
shallow water. That fits hypoxia.

Anybody know what ' breather he was using?


Chuck

 

[CCRDolphinDiver]

Regardless of another divers opinion of who, or how smart Harvey was, I dont think this is the place for it. Some things should be kept to oneself. My thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends in this difficult time. How many of us have had an error free diving career? We are just lucky that our mistakes were not as fatal as Harvey's. The official word is hypoxia, not hypercapnia, due to exausting the gas cylinder and the oxygauge being off. Thunder Reef divers is just north of Vancouver Washington, about a 20 minute drive from Portland Oregon.

Rebreathers are no more dangerous than OC scuba, they just require a diver who understands the extra attention to detail required for their operation.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

He wouldn't have passed the exam for rebreather with an IQ of 60-70. Wouldn't have come close.

 

[omar]

Carldarl,

I drove Harvey up to Redfish for our own dives and it was not the Boise Watersport BBQ trip. This trip was almost a year before he got his breather and the thermal protection was not a costume that he dreamed up for the trip. In addition, he stopped by my house numerous times to talk and try to get me to dive with him again.

The point is I spent a significant amount of time with him, long enough to determine with out a doubt in my mind, that he did not have the mental capacity to adequately dive a rebreather.

In fact when my wife asked about the dives when we got back my comment was that Harvey would end up dying while diving. While this may seem to be rhetoric or drama it is not, and I have not made that type of assessment on any other diver I have dove with.

As I mentioned before there are a few instructors that felt that he was not capable to be a rebreather diver and they refused to teach him. My point of this and the first post is to seriously question the vetting process of the diveshop/instructor that allowed him to get to this point.

I am also aware that he could learn what he needed by spending a considerable amount of time memorizing it. The distinction is that learning by rote is not sufficient if you can not use the information in context and transfer the knowledge to identifying critical commonalities across situations.

omar

 

[bradshsi]

Regardless of another divers opinion of who, or how smart Harvey was, I dont think this is the place for it. Some things should be kept to oneself. My thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends in this difficult time.

"The purpose of this forum is the promotion of safe diving through accident analysis.
Accurate analysis of accidents and incidents that could easily have become accidents is essential to building lessons learned from which improved safety can flow."

The above is taken from the rules of the forum. I disagree with the assertion that this is not the place for it. Omar has made an assessment of the skill level of the deceased (based on direct experience), which may have been a contributing factor in the accident.

Of course all of us here feel for his family and their loss (we wouldn't be human if we did not). But all the heartfelt wishes in the world will not bring Harvey back.

So we have to ask ourselves:

Do we comment on how sad his death was and then go on our way. Or do we try to analyze the accident data to see how we could prevent even one repeat of it in the future.

To my mind, trying to prevent another accident is how we could best honor his memory.

The official word is hypoxia, not hypercapnia, due to exausting the gas cylinder and the oxygauge being off. Thunder Reef divers is just north of Vancouver Washington, about a 20 minute drive from Portland Oregon.

Since the "official" word is hypoxia, I'm interested in what errors could have contributed to this (e.g. why was the cylinder nearly empty and the oxygauge off ?). Rebreather divers, I would like to hear your opinions/analysis on this.

 

[Web Monkey]

Since the "official" word is hypoxia, I'm interested in what errors could have contributed to this (e.g. why was the cylinder nearly empty and the oxygauge off ?). Rebreather divers, I would like to hear your opinions/analysis on this.

I'd be interested to hear why rebreathers are still being sold that allow a user to continue breathing a mix that will not support life.

The formulas are known and all the other variables can be measured (depth, current o2%, co2% n%, etc.), which means that the ability of a mix to support life at any particular depth can be calculated.

Why would a manufacturer build equipment that is essentially a death machine?

Continuing to breathe a mix that can no longer support life deserves some action from the rebreather that would prevent this, such as dumping all the gas from the loop or closing it off when it can no longer support life.

Terry

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Part of the rebreather course is being able to assemble AND test the rebreather properly. A person with an IQ below 70 cound not do that nor pass the academics for the course. Not a chance.