Remember the discussion about Hydro & VIP expiration dates?

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MB

Obi-MB-Kenobi
Rest in Peace
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:coffee: Back to a discussion we had a couple of months ago…

The issue: A local store whose management insisted that the VIP sticker must be stamped so that its “life” does not extend beyond the life of a hydro expiration date. For example, if a cylinder has hydro date stamped that expires this Dec, but a visual inspection was being done in May, then that VIP sticker must be falsely stamped as being done in the previous Dec so the sticker’s end date does not exceed the expiring hydro date. Why? The store owner says that it is too much to expect the fill station operator to check both the hydro date and the VIP sticker before filling a cylinder… And why would an inspector object to this practice? One reason is that conducting a viz in May, but stamping the viz sticker as if it was conducted in Dec, is falsifying the record.

So while I was at DEMA I asked the leadership of the two major cylinder inspection agencies for their opinions on the issue of back dating the VIP stickers so they will not exceed the stamped date of a hydro inspection. Both concur that the real issue is that the fill station operator needs to pay attention to his/her job, and only fill a cylinder if both dates indicate that the cylinder is “in date” for an allowable fill. Of course that assumes the employer (dive store or other entity) actually trains the fill station operator (which is a very explicit legal requirement - called function specific training!). And both agency leaders rightly point out that the only law or regulation that governs any of this issue involves CGA regs regarding hydros (since there are no actual regs that require VIPs).

Having said all that, Guy A from Agency A suggests that if the business can’t trust that their employees will actually inspect both the hydro date and the VIP sticker, then go ahead and back date the VIP sticker so it does not extend past the hydro expiration date. Q: Doesn’t that constitute “backdating the record” which is falsifying the record? A: Well… no, since there is no actual requirement to place a sticker on the cylinder. Q: But without a sticker there is no fill. ANS: Right, but it isn't a law. Q: But marking it Dec when it was inspected in May is not accurate. ANS: Well... yeah. Q: And the fact that the VIP sticker that has the inspector’s number on it (not the store, but the inspector!) with a form or other written record of the inspection now has date that will not match the sticker? Doesn't that put the veracity of the inspector in question? ANS: Uh… well… no answer… gotta go.

So I sought out Guy B at Agency B. Of course you don’t back date records. But remember that the VIP is not actually law, but obviously if you want the cylinder actually filled, you need a sticker, and a proper one. Why are we assuming that a fill station operator can’t conduct a basic fill protocol that involves checking the dates? There is even a term for the cursory inspection, and part of the law that talks about “function specific training” should cover this exact situation. [Now comes the ticker from Guy B at Agency B] Oh wait, you said this is from Florida… OK, I get it.

So there you have it. The expiration date dilemma as seen by the folks who train cylinder inspectors… with the recognition that practices in Florida might have to account for those riding the short bus.

I thought you might want to know.
Cheers

:doctor:
 
Who gives a flying crap other than people that like to complain.
Are sanctimonious know-it-alls.
Enjoy harassing dive shop personnel.
Are WAYYYY..... too OCD for their own good.
And need I mention quick to rudeness.

Here is an idea.

Sit down.
Strap a tank to your back (or side).
Stick a second stage in your mouth (or pull on a full face mask).
And GET INTO THE WATER!!!

Because THAT is what diving is all about.

For DIVERS.

As to all this other crap......

As I mentioned some months ago.....

"Nothing good will come from this."

Chug
Still welcome in ALL Florida Dive Shops.
 
So.. Agency B thinks tank monkeys in Florida ride the short bus? Hmmm. Considering how the original debate started, yeah, I could agree.
 
Sorry Chug, but the only complaint (and a sanctimonious one at that) I'm seeing is yours.

This was an update, not a rant, and not harassment. And yes, the substance of the issues does matter if folks can't get a fill without a hassle. Or if inspectors are being asked to falsify records by people who should know better. Or if the industry has such low expectations that we can't expect fill station operators to know how to check dates.

Sorry you disagree.
 
Very unlike you, Chug!

What got stuck in your craw?!?!?
 
I have that effect on some people... one of my better qualities...
 
One other thing to consider. If the person filling your tank is not competent to compare two dates - are they really competent to be filling the tank? And, is that someone you want filling your tank?

My LDS even checks to make sure the burst disk is the proper one. Some LP Faber tanks have a 5K+ burst disk because in Europe they fill them at higher pressures than in the US. One of mine did and they caught it.
 
The VIP game is just that.. A Money game..
 
MB:
...Both concur that the real issue is that the fill station operator needs to pay attention to his/her job, and only fill a cylinder if both dates indicate that the cylinder is “in date” for an allowable fill.....

It was a huge smile maker to meet up with you at DEMA and catch up on old times my friend !!
 
Agreed Amigo. Way too much time passes when we aren't paying attention... I should have glued myself to your backpack so we could have spent an hour talking story! Will you go to the BHB BBQ on the 28th?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/
https://xf2.scubaboard.com/community/forums/cave-diving.45/

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