I agree. Why is it that just about every time someone dies in the ocean (diving, swimming, or snorkeling) a lawsuit is the result? It's always someone else's fault, somehow. People need to learn to educate themselves and get whatever training they might think necessary. From a public health and safety standpoint it makes sense for Hawaii to warn tourists. But I can't see how the state has a legal obligation to warn mainlanders that yeah, duh, the ocean can kill you in myriad ways.
ROPE - I have not heard of this snorkeling problem
- Thread starter DanBMW
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Not sure if you overlooked it in boulderjohn's post above. I saw this caveat from DAN about over-hydration, too.
Missed that
Soloist
Contributor
The deceased was purported to have been an experienced snorkeler. I can understand the "experienced" qualifier being used for a scuba diver or freediver, but a snorkeler? This is a somewhat dubious characterization.
Has there been any definitive information released regarding the use of a full face snorkel mask in this incident?
Has there been any definitive information released regarding the use of a full face snorkel mask in this incident?
We don't know what the widow is asking for in the lawsuit. Reading the full article, she seems pretty sincere in wanting to get information about this particular problem out to the public.
Obviously pre-existing medical factors pay a huge role in whether someone is likely to experience ROPE, but that's all the more reason to let people know about it. I don't see any reason to disbelieve her statement that they would have waited a couple of days before snorkeling if they had known there was a heightened danger especially given how many of the risk factors likely applied to them (looking at the picture) such as obesity, age, high blood pressure and known cardiac issues.
They should also flat out ban full face snorkel masks as inherently unsafe. This is from the Hawaii Snorkel Safety Study referred to above.
"Full Face Masks
The Study tested only four full-face masks. Within this limited scope of examination, full-face masks pose no inherent advantage or disadvantage in terms of resistance to inhalation compared to other devices. However, based on evaluation of design and first-hand accounts, there are several adverse features of full-face masks including:
• Cannot be removed easily in urgent situations even with quick release features
• Cannot “spit out” mouthpiece in urgent situations
• Cannot clear water from tube with sharp expiratory force maneuver
• Cannot dive beneath the surface safely
• Valve malfunction may lead to serious aspiration consequences"
If someone is unable to use a standard mask and snorkel, strapping them into a full face snorkel mask is an extremely bad idea. The safer alternative is simply using the mask without any snorkel.
Obviously pre-existing medical factors pay a huge role in whether someone is likely to experience ROPE, but that's all the more reason to let people know about it. I don't see any reason to disbelieve her statement that they would have waited a couple of days before snorkeling if they had known there was a heightened danger especially given how many of the risk factors likely applied to them (looking at the picture) such as obesity, age, high blood pressure and known cardiac issues.
They should also flat out ban full face snorkel masks as inherently unsafe. This is from the Hawaii Snorkel Safety Study referred to above.
"Full Face Masks
The Study tested only four full-face masks. Within this limited scope of examination, full-face masks pose no inherent advantage or disadvantage in terms of resistance to inhalation compared to other devices. However, based on evaluation of design and first-hand accounts, there are several adverse features of full-face masks including:
• Cannot be removed easily in urgent situations even with quick release features
• Cannot “spit out” mouthpiece in urgent situations
• Cannot clear water from tube with sharp expiratory force maneuver
• Cannot dive beneath the surface safely
• Valve malfunction may lead to serious aspiration consequences"
If someone is unable to use a standard mask and snorkel, strapping them into a full face snorkel mask is an extremely bad idea. The safer alternative is simply using the mask without any snorkel.
Rob9876
Contributor
I have 2 people in my family who can't use a regular snorkel because of jaw issues, so using full face snorkels has been great for them. Honestly, it's not rocket science to stand your body up in the water and pull the mask off (or partially to drain some water). For some people it may be a good idea to wear at least a partially inflated snorkel vest to add buoyancy while dealing with a flooded mask. But I'd hate to see these banned because some folks won't take very basic steps to use these properly.
And I wouldn't want to see your family members die because they are using inherently unsafe equipment. Have you ever seen a panicked swimmer? I was a lifeguard and I've seen people 2 feet away from a ladder or float be unable to reach them without assistance. I have no faith that a person in difficulty would be able to remove this in time.
How exactly does the average vacation snorkeler "stand [their] body up in the water" to pull off the mask anyway? I played water polo so I can use my hands to do tasks while treading water, but we have plenty of evidence in the form of dead snorkel mask users that this isn't universal.
I'm in full agreement with this video. Make sure you listen to his anecdote that starts around 1:30:
If you see a typical new snorkeler in the water, you will see a vast difference between that beginning snorkeler and an experienced snorkeler. Many years ago some people came to our shop and purchased snorkels. They paid for a snorkel lesson in our pool, and I got the job. I was stunned by their incompetence at the start. I quickly saw I would have to take the tiniest of baby steps to get them ready to snorkel in the open water.
johndiver999
Contributor
My first liveaboard experience was on the Great Barrier Reef. My non-diving wife was along, and she probably put in more time snorkeling than I did diving, and I didn't miss a dive.
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