Scubapro online sales

[Scuba]

There are some very interesting legal issues at play here, and I'm not an attorney, but half my family is, plus I have several more on retainer... So I will lay out the layman legalize version and I'm sure we have plenty of attorneys on the board that will give us their take... A manufactured product comes with a manufactures warranty from the company. A company can choose who they sell to. They can say the product carries a warranty to the original purchaser from the retailer, thus if shop A sells to Shop B who then sells to a customer, there is no warranty... But if a manufacturer sets up a dealer, and sells them product at a price that includes a warranty, and that dealer sells that product, even after the dealer agreement has ended between the parties - they cannot void the warranty on those products.

(following paragraph has been taken out of order)

So it might be accurate that most people selling their product on line got it somehow that violated SP policies... if they sold it to someone, that might not have a warranty, but for a store that bought the product through their normal channels, and as recently recieved product as 3 weeks ago, they cannot simply recind the warranty on that product. The price I paid for the product, included a warranty - it stays in tact.

I'm not an attorney Larry, but I'll take a shot at it based on some business knowledge in retail, as this is an interesting case. After termination of a dealer agreement you have the right to liquidate remaining product, possible exceptions not withstanding. The manufacturer warranty remains valid during liquidation, I think that's the norm in much of retail. Here is where you make it interesting, you are now selling remaining stock using a dealer agreement non allowed method - Internet, which voids the warranty according to SP quotes on here. Not being an authorized dealer any longer, which I infer is the case, you are not bound by the terms of agreement. Yet, you have full knowledge being a prior dealer that selling product online voids warranty. An interesting case indeed. I'm not sure how much, if any, specific case precedent there may be. Internet case issues are sometimes treated different than standard non Internet cases. These cases are fairly new and being established.

This warranty issue is a legitimate concern for consumers. I would suggest anyone who may be affected and is concerned by it, ask SP to clarify this case. Since they are the one's issuing the manufacturers warranty. This potential manufacturer retailer dispute may affect the warranty to consumer. So if you want to be sure, find out, call, send email and save with product receipt. In practical terms this is probably not much of an issue or easy to overcome, unless SP wants to make an example out of this case, which I would very much doubt.

Having said all that, I must say that I have not had the pleasure of doing business with Larry, yet. That's no small complement coming from my critical skeptical self. Larry and ScubaToys have "earned" quite a reputation here for taking care of their customers. This is one thing we can count on - perhaps the most important aspect in a seller and buyer relationship. Thank you Larry, there ought to be more like you!

In fact, to avoid the restraint of trade laws, all the dealer agreements from all manufacturers state that you can do whatever you want with product after you have it..., the manufacturer is not setting price, distribution, etc... they just have the right to no longer ship to you if you don't follow their policy... Otherwise, they would have a serious fair trade investigation... And this came straight from an agent at the DOJ that I talked to...

If a manufacturer can take action over a dealer not following policy they are in fact setting policy. The law is what it is. It is applied the way it is. But the practical effects of price control, and imposition of general limits on retail competition - is available today in the USA to any manufacturer/marketer who desires it. It exists within limits. Nothing like guaranteeing the retailer a minimum profit margin on a product. Retailers love it, it limits the issue of price competition. There are enough other challenges.

This is not in the interest of consumers - overall.

 

[Xizang]

They see increased revenue, and obviously don't care where it is coming from. However, this is a short-sighted practice that is going to cost them market share in the long run. How? Mostly through dealers like Larry dropping the SP line from their stores because they can't sell it on the internet.

but not if they continue to build on their brand equity. I think Scubapro has a strong brand equity that a drop in sales from a lost distribution point would probably just be filled up with another distribution point.

 

[StSomewhere]

If a manufacturer can take action over a dealer not following policy they are in fact setting policy. The law is what it is. It is applied the way it is. But the practical effects of price control, and imposition of general limits on retail competition - is available today in the USA to any manufacturer/marketer who desires it. It exists within limits. Nothing like guaranteeing the retailer a minimum profit margin on a product. Retailers love it, it limits the issue of price competition. There are enough other challenges.

But the manufacturer is limited in the action they can take. Basically, they can't sue to prevent sales at lower than MAP pricing, they can't reposses the inventory that's already been paid for, all they can do is refuse to continue to sell the wholesale product to the reseller. This applies to goods from Scubapro, or Oakley or Callaway (all of which can be found on the gray market at significant discounts if you know where to look).

 

[SCUBA-J]

I have worked in many dive shops and was cert. on S/P in the 80's on S/P. I would not walk across the street for the stuff , they have NOTHING that great (maybe the computers ) but the BCD's are old school crap and the regs are the same thing for -ever but new name and higher price . So buy up guys ! I am all about KISS and S/P is not that. So fire away at the hate mail

 

[SCUBA-J]

By the way , all I am saying is S/P is not the end all be all like so many think.Thats all

 

[Xizang]

who is anyway the market leader in regulators? I mean the quantifiable market leader declared by a 3rd party agency like AC Nielsen. I wonder if manufacturers get this kind of info

 

[scubapro50]

I too have worked for a ScubaPro dealer back in the 60s and early 70s. I can now say that his sales technique was very similar to a car dealer. We carried two major lines of equipment (ScubaPro and Dacor). The shop owner would have people go out and purchase the "low end" regulator (unbalance down stream 1st stage with a small nott hole purge 2 stage) from U.S. Divers, Healthways, Nemrod or Sportways. When these '"low end" regulators were compared to our MK5 or MK7 they always loss. He would never discount ScubaPro but would make "package" deals that offered some other line of equipment mixed in with the ScubaPro stuff. Thay way he could say he "discounted" the other stuff...... This dive shop owner is no longer but his fame for wheeling and dealling still lasts . >>>> The wildest deal I saw him get into to was a young man that pulled up in a 59 corvette sometime around 1973 ..... he wanted 2 complete sets of equipment and 2 basic courses for the vette. NOW THE VETTE WASN'T IN THE BEST SHAPE ... but GOD ... it was a vette and it did run. THe got what he wanted and the shop owner got the pink slip to the vette. By the way ... there wasn't much ScubaPro equipment that Joe let him have in the deal.

 

[dherbman]

SNIP

Good post, I don't see anything inaccurate there. I'd drive with you, but that kind of logic has no place here .

 

[redacted]

This warranty issue is a legitimate concern for consumers. I would suggest anyone who may be affected and is concerned by it, ask SP to clarify this case. Since they are the one's issuing the manufacturers warranty. This potential manufacturer retailer dispute may affect the warranty to consumer. So if you want to be sure, find out, call, send email and save with product receipt. In practical terms this is probably not much of an issue or easy to overcome, unless SP wants to make an example out of this case, which I would very much doubt.

I tried that yesterdy (1:30, central). I sent the following email to the "contact us" address ('swarranty@johnsonoutdoors.com') from the SP site FAQ section dealing with warrenties and online sales:

"I have located a dealer (Scubatoys in Texas) who claims to be an authorized Scubapro dealer and is offering the Mk25/S600 for sale over the internet. Is this an authorized dealer and will this regulator be covered by the Scubapro warrenty. I would appreciate your quick response.

Thank You,"

Much to my dismay I have not yet received an answer. I will post the response if I ever get one.

 

[dherbman]

awap, The e-mail you sent is a longer version of the same question I asked SP. It took nearly 24 hours to get this reply (posted earlier in this thread).

This letter specifically addresses Leisure Pro, New York but covers any internet sales.

Thank you for considering SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment.

Please be aware that Leisure Pro, New York is not, nor has ever been, an authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC dealer.

Leisure Pro obtains our products through “gray-market” sources and not from our factory. We have no way of assuring the ultimate consumer that any item purchased via this source has not been tampered with or modified. Nor can we assume that our product has been properly tested and inspected. As such, SCUBAPRO UWATEC does not extend any warranties on its products purchased from Leisure Pro or any other "unauthorized” dealer.

SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA does not authorize sales via the internet nor via mail order. We maintain a minimum pricing policy that our authorized dealers adhere to. Although some of our dealers advertise our equipment, once again they are not authorized to make direct sales through the internet, but rather, authorized dealers are only authorized to sell SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA equipment over the counter at their retail location.

All online companies that sell and make direct purchases of our product, like LeisurePro are not an authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC dealer and SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment obtained through channels other than SCUBAPRO UWATEC Authorized Dealers does not carry the SCUBAPRO UWATEC Limited Lifetime/Limited Warranty. If you so choose to purchase SCUBAPRO UWATEC products online, the warranty will be voided.

If you still decide to purchased SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment from anywhere other than an Authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC Dealership, we recommend that it be inspected by an Authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC Repair Center to be sure that it is operating and performing to SCUBAPRO UWATEC specifications

LeisurePro may offer their own warranty on the equipment that you are considering, however, LeisurePro, like many other online companies that sell our product, has not been trained by SCUBAPRO UWATEC nor is certified to perform maintenance on SCUBAPRO UWATEC or UWATEC equipment.

You can find an authorized dealer in your area at http://www.scubapro.com/dealers/usde...RO&NewSearch=1

Please feel free to contact us should you have further queries regarding this matter.

Best regards,
Patty Savinski

SCUBAPRO
Product Registration