Scubapro online sales

[DA Aquamaster]

who is anyway the market leader in regulators? I mean the quantifiable market leader declared by a 3rd party agency like AC Nielsen. I wonder if manufacturers get this kind of info

20 years ago I would have said without reservation that Scubapro was the market leader, from the perspective of a discriminating diver wanting the best in terms of quality and performance.

But now, the competition is much better in comparision.

In my opinion, part of that is due to the competition doing a better job of engineering and part of it is Scubapro trying to increase sales in what has become a much larger market filled with much less discriminatiing divers. Sadly, quality is not the number one criteria of many ocassional or cost concerned divers. Across the industry as a whole, I think regulator quality has fallen (plastic second stage cases, air barrels, etc) to lower production costs and market prices.

 

[redacted]

awap, The e-mail you sent is a longer version of the same question I asked SP. It took nearly 24 hours to get this reply (posted earlier in this thread).

Thanks,

I'm just waiting, impatiently. I suspect the specific answers to my 2 questions may have some legal ramifications, as Larry suggested, that may delay any response. But I publicly said that I would inquire and didn't want anyone to assume I had not.

 

[scubatoys]

Yes, their form letter is not too applicable in our case - To avoid confusion - I've put my notes in RED.

This letter specifically addresses Leisure Pro, New York but covers any internet sales.

Thank you for considering SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment.

Please be aware that Leisure Pro, New York is not, nor has ever been, an authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC dealer.

Scubatoys on the other hand was set up as a Scubapro dealer by Scubapro.

Leisure Pro obtains our products through “gray-market” sources and not from our factory. We have no way of assuring the ultimate consumer that any item purchased via this source has not been tampered with or modified. Nor can we assume that our product has been properly tested and inspected. As such, SCUBAPRO UWATEC does not extend any warranties on its products purchased from Leisure Pro or any other "unauthorized” dealer.

All our product came directly shipped to us from ScubaPro - not a "gray-market" source.


LeisurePro may offer their own warranty on the equipment that you are considering, however, LeisurePro, like many other online companies that sell our product, has not been trained by SCUBAPRO UWATEC nor is certified to perform maintenance on SCUBAPRO UWATEC or UWATEC equipment.

While in our situation... Our repair tech attended ScubaPro training seminars, and the parts we use came from Scubapro.

If I started getting more product through "gray-market" channels, they would have the right to refuse warranty, but the serial numbers on our units are listed with Scubapro as being sold to us when we were in fact an authorized dealer... It would be a PR and legal nightmare for them to cross that line.

 

[dherbman]

Please don't take this post as anything other than what it is: an attempt to clarify what seem to be mutually exclusive statements. Your post seems limited to those lines which seem to support your stance, while failing to address the critical points which bring question to the validity of your claim that the SB warrantee is intact for items you sell over the net.

You have confirmed:

You are/were an authorized dealer.
You are/were an authorized service center
Your products are genuine product.

None of these issues were ever in question. What is in question is what you have so far not clarified:

1)SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA does not authorize sales via the internet nor via mail order.

2) Authorized dealers are only authorized to sell SCUBAPRO UWATEC USA equipment over the counter at their retail location.

3)If you so choose to purchase SCUBAPRO UWATEC products online, the warranty will be voided.

As a customer, I would not be interested in a LDS warrantee. That would be like the old US Divers POS policy. I want world wide recognition of the warrantee I paid for. Points 1-3 above make it clear that I will not have that if I buy online. You seem to say you are trumping SP policy, but it reads like a Clintonesque debate in which no clear answer is provided to these three basic points.
I see a couple scenarios that could play out.

1) I buy online from you and go to another shop to have warrantee work done. They look up the registration and see it was bought from an authorized dealer, no problem.

2) I buy online from you and go to another shop to have warrantee work done. They look up the registration and see it was bought from you and refuse to honor the warrantee without proof it was not bought online.

Thanks for your time Larry

Dave Herbert

 

[paulwall]

How? Mostly through dealers like Larry dropping the SP line from their stores because they can't sell it on the internet.

Just to clarify, Larry's decision to drop SP was not because he couldn't sell it on the internet, it had to do with MAP (minimum advertised pricing) in his contract with SP and SP's inability (unwillingness?) to control sales of their products through the grey market. (If I read his original post correctly).

Larry has several products in his store that are not on his web site. It gives you all the more reason to visit his store. Other B&M stores with Internet Portals are similar (DiveSports.com, for one, doesn't advertise his AL tanks online for his own reasons).

 

[paulwall]

Yet, you have full knowledge being a prior dealer that selling product online voids warranty. An interesting case indeed. I'm not sure how much, if any, specific case precedent there may be. Internet case issues are sometimes treated different than standard non Internet cases. These cases are fairly new and being established.

But, then, doesn't it become SP's burden to prove that the purchaser bought that reg set (or whatever) via the internet? SP's records show that they shipped these products to Larry while Larry was in good standing. Is it not unreasonable to assume that 100% of those items shipped were sold via the internet? If not 100%, then what percentage?

Larry does a substantial business "over the counter". If I have a ScubaToys receipt, dated even after Larry's notice of termination, can SP reasonably presume that the item(s) were not sold "over the counter"?

 

[redacted]

3)If you so choose to purchase SCUBAPRO UWATEC products online, the warranty will be voided.

Dave

I agree that is what the letter you received from Scubapro says. But on their website where they address the same issue, there story is somewhat different. Rather than useing the word "will" (which I'm sure is correct if you are talking about Leisurepro) Scubapro uses the word "may" and it is not in reference to any specific internet dealer (like Scubatoys, Diveinn, or Deepstop.De). So I am not sure how to apply their general statements which appears to apply to all dealers (authorized and unauthorized, foreign and domestic) as opposed to response you received which appears to be specifically directed at Leisurepro.

 

[dherbman]

Yeah, it's all just about as clear as the water I last dove in.

Dave

I agree that is what the letter you received from Scubapro says. But on their website where they address the same issue, there story is somewhat different. Rather than useing the word "will" (which I'm sure is correct if you are talking about Leisurepro) Scubapro uses the word "may" and it is not in reference to any specific internet dealer (like Scubatoys, Diveinn, or Deepstop.De). So I am not sure how to apply their general statements which appears to apply to all dealers (authorized and unauthorized, foreign and domestic) as opposed to response you received which appears to be specifically directed at Leisurepro.

 

[HarryWhisman]

OK I've got it!!

Take your Scubapro stuff into the LDS for warranty work and if they don't know you, then they have to call Scubapro with the serial number whereupon they look up to see where you bought it. Oh wait wait that's not right--they look up to see if they have a warranty card on file from an authorized dealer because they don't keep track of serial numbers.

Got It!!

 

[yknot]

1) I buy online from you and go to another shop to have warrantee work done. They look up the registration and see it was bought from an authorized dealer, no problem.

The problem here is that they can't look up a serial # because they aren't tracked by SP. Even the gear at LeisurePro was originally sold to an authorized source, who then sold it to LP. Applying their logic, if you bought a used piece of ScubaPro equipment you couldn't get warranty service. This tells me that SP considers their authorized dealers to be the customer, not you as a diver. For that reason alone I would refuse to support them. A friend bought a Uwatec computer from LP and called ScubaPro about an issue. They quoted a price of $400 for a service (new battery and "test"). This certainly sounds punative to me. After all, my friend did originally decide to purchase a Uwatec product, thereby supporting SP, and as a reward for being a frugal consumer is being treated like a traitor to the sport.

As far as warranty issues are concerned, MAP agreements are illegal, as is the common practice of requiring specific people (your "authorized" dealer) to use specific parts in order to maintain warranty coverage. Unfortunately, my state's attorney general, as well as my federal representatives, have more important things to do than deal with the complaints of scuba divers. You likely couldn't even find an attorney to sue someone as a class action unless the money was bigger, like from a drug manufacturer. What will change the situation is that more dive consumers will seek brands like Zeagle, due to their customer service record and belief in a fairer way of selling products at a discount, leaving SP to play catch-up, providing they haven't alienated their customer base beyond repair.