Since the Seeker has been a recent topic

[SeaGypsy]

Since the Seeker has been a recent topic I'm cross posting this for discussion.

_________________________________________


Ladies and Gentlemen;


Following rumors that there are certain boats and dive shops up in NewYork City and vicinity that will not honor the GUE Tech Certification, I sent the attached email to various dive boats, listed on the North East Dive Boat Association's website.

You can see the text I wrote and answers that I have received, whereas still a few are outstanding.

I know that GUE has insurance, but I think something has to be done for the public image, at least removing unnecessary rumors that limits us in our diving in the NE region and maybe in other locations of the continental US.

Updates will follow as they come in.

Regards;


Udo


P.S.: Text is reformatted for readability.
P.S.S.: Seeker's answer is the most outrageous

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hello;

My name is Udo Rotmistrenko, I am the president of Hydronautics - Diving for Science and Adventure, Inc.

We are a volunteer organization that supports regional Universities and Colleges with scientific projects ranging from shallow water recovery of Paleo-Indian artifacts to deep sea projects.

Now, most of our research divers, either are or will be certified for
Trimix by Global Underwater Explorers, GUE http://www.gue.com based out of Florida.

The certification is called Tech 1 and if you follow the link, you can
see their standards for the certification card.

http://www.gue.com/classroom/standards/gue_tech1_student.pdf

I was told that your boat may not recognize the GUE Technical
Certification card for dives requiring Trimix for deep wrecks. Is that
true?//snip//

Looking forward to your answer.

All the best

Udo Rotmistrenko
President Hydronautics - Diving for Science & Adventure, Inc.
Technical Director New York Institute of Anthropology, Inc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seekers Answer


Dear Mr. Rotmistrenko:

I am an SDI/TDI instructor trainer at the highest level and Seeker
is a training facility, I am also a certified commercial diver and
I work with several municipalities, contractors, film makers,
writers, as well as Rutgers marine biologists and field station
scientists.
I've been working and exploring the Northeast for 20 years and
have trained many divers of all levels. At this time it would not
only be unwise, but irresponsible for any operator to accept any
GUE certification as they are not an internationally, or for that
matter, nationally recognized agency with merit, credibility or
insurance. It is unfortunate that you as well as several other
groups like yourself have been mislead by GUE as being a
certification agency. However, I would be happy to reevaluate your
divers for certification and train any new divers by competent and
experienced instructors knowledgeable of the area. If you would
like to discuss this further please do not hesitate to call.

Best regards,

Captain Dan Crowell

President Deep Explorers, Inc. - Seeker Digital Productions
Vice Chair Philadelphia Chapter of the Explorers Club
Rutgers University Institute of Marine and Coastal Science Undersea
Research Team
SDI/TDI Instructor Trainer

732-836-0729

 

[JamesK]

Originally posted by SeaGypsy
It is unfortunate that you as well as several other
groups like yourself have been mislead by GUE as being a
certification agency. However, I would be happy to reevaluate your
divers for certification and train any new divers by competent and
experienced instructors knowledgeable of the area

LMAO! He basically just said that GUE trainers are incompetent, and those trained to GUE standards (which are very high) have been mislead.

I know that GI is not a GUE trainer or instructor, but I would pay high dollar to see these two go at it.

 

[SubMariner]

LMAO! He basically just said that GUE trainers are incompetent, and those trained to GUE standards (which are very high) have been mislead.

Excuse me, but I don't believe he is saying that at all. He has a valid point in saying that GUE is not a recognized certifying agency. It's NOT.

Without casting aspersions on GUE, there are far too may people in FL who say "I'm fed up with being an Instructor for ___________ [insert name of any agency here]. Their standards suck I think I can do a better job training people to MY standards [which of course are far better than those of _______ [insert name of any agency here]. Hereafter I am going to issue certification cards for [insert name here]."

Other than the fact that THEY say so, there is NO educational validation for the "courses" these self-professed Instructors teach, nor the "certification" they bestow upon their graduates.

However, I also belive Mr. Crowell couldhave been a little fairer in his offer to " to reevaluate your divers for certification and train any new divers by competent and experienced instructors knowledgeable of the area. ".

IMHO it would have been more equitable & professional to say that he could evauate the diver's qualifications and if found competent, to offer an equivalent certification with his agency. Only if they did not pass a written & practical ("skill circuit") test should he talk about offering "additional training".

Please note, I am NOT a tech diver, nor do a profess to know anything about tech diving. I am merely stating an opinion from a Instructor's POV.

~SubMariner~

 

[JamesK]

Originally posted by SubMariner
However, I also belive Mr. Crowell couldhave been a little fairer in his offer to " to reevaluate your divers for certification and train any new divers by competent and experienced instructors knowledgeable of the area. ".

That is the part that I mainly tried to point out. He implied, whether he meant to or not, that GUE instructors were incompetent.

 

[SeaGypsy]

To the best of my knowledge there is no accrediting agency for scuba courses the way there is for other types of schools or colleges, so what would make a particular training agency "recognized"? Does any training agency have "educational validation"? It seems to me all the current agencies started in just the way you described.

 

[tchil01]

Originally posted by SeaGypsy
To the best of my knowledge there is no accrediting agency for scuba courses the way there is for other types of schools or colleges, so what would make a particular training agency "recognized"? Does any training agency have "educational validation"? It seems to me all the current agencies started in just the way you described.

I am looking for the information but I believe that I read somewhere that during the early 70's the major training agencies got together and set minimum standards for at least basic training. Didn't they form a oversite group that became the forerunner of DEMA?

Ty

 

[Paul168341]

That sounds like it might be right, Ty. At least, it sounds familiar.

SeaGypsy, Believe it or not (and many would rather not) PADI does hold a college accredidation (sp?) IOW, PADI is the only training agency whose course can count for college credits. Not that that has anything to do with the price of tea in China, GUE, TDI etc... are in a much different league.

I agree with SubMariner, Crowell does have a point in his view of GUE. However, based on the quote, he does seem to be a bit condescending in his regards of them as well. That's interesting because I know plenty of TDI folks who also embrace GUE's concepts. I'd be interested to hear more from the captain regarding his view of GUE.

 

[WreckWriter]

The part most folks seem to have missed, in the "glow" of Capt. Crowell's remarks about GUE, is that in the original letter to him the guy wanted to do the Doria etc with Tech 1 certification.

As I thought (and verified this morning with a GUE instructor), Tech 1 is normoxic and hyperoxic trimix, and Tech 1 divers are qualified to less than 200'. Tech 2 is the advanced trimix course. Therefor tech 1 divers should not be able to do Doria type dives.

I think the whole situation is unfortunate as GUE divers will now, at least in some places, pay the price for their leader's arguments with others. GUE training is among the best, if not the best, available. Divers who chose to go this more difficult route should not be penalized.

Tom

 

[PA/NJdiver]

SeaGypsy, Believe it or not (and many would rather not) PADI does hold a college accredidation (sp?) IOW, PADI is the only training agency whose course can count for college credits.

NAUI's classes also count towad college credits. Penn State Univ. will not accept a PADI course for credit; they will only accept NAUI.

I'm just curious if this is going to be a problem with other NJ boats. George has p***** off quite a few people here in the NE. If only I had my own boat and captain's license.

Stacey

 

[Paul168341]

I agree with everything you've said Tom, just one question.
Where in Udo's letter, or Dan's response, is the Doria mentioned?
I think that he may just be referring to deep wrecks within the 200' range.
Although there are some folks who don't consider that to be deep.

As far as the Doria, I know that Steve Bielenda of the R.V. Wahoo requires divers to do what amounts to a whole season of dives on various wrecks (San Diego, Oregon etc...) and evaluates them until he and his staff feel that they can bring them out there. I'm not sure what the Seeker's criterea is. If anyone knows I'm sure we'd all be interested.