Socorro Aggressor shut down

[tridacna]

Here are a couple interesting and informative videos I saw a couple days ago. They're a bit long, but I find them interesting and entertaining. The relevance of these videos is that most scams are rather vague, and bringing criminal charges or a lawsuit is often not worth the time or money.



In summary Dave hears about a fire-sale from a guy with a warehouse full of helicopter parts, and incomplete helicopters. Initially, the deal is $150k for everything in the building. "Art" the seller, spends the day showing Dave a bunch of helicopters, parts, tools, full shelves, etc. Art acts cool and friendly and high-energy, telling stories, etc. But at the end says the price is $300k, not $150k. A lot of the stuff is a bit disorganized, and Dave needs someone with real expertise, and Art asks Dave for a $30k to $40k deposit. Dave negotiates that down to $10k, says "I trust him" and flys home, and agrees to meet again on Monday.

Dave's crew shows up again on Monday, but now the warehouse looks very different. Shelves are empty, boxes moved around. Alarm bells go off for good reason, but if Dave can still lock down a specific inventory for a specific price, it might still be a killer deal. Today, art is completely different. Very aggressive and accusatory. Attempts to make a very clear deal about what is included, are obstructed with excessively long winded stories, flip-flopping, irrelevancies, aggressiveness, distractions about "personal property," and accusations of being "military and strict." Art then also tries to claim this deal is him doing Dave a favor, that it's a "Donation," and that Dave is the one being up-tight.

Then things get even weirder, because Art wants the agreement to be $300k for nothing, but then Art donates all of it. Furthermore, the money is supposed to go to some offshore military contractor. Art also refuses to let Dave change the locks and secure inventory. Dave leaves when the situation goes from BAD (which you see on video) to apparently much worse, to the point Dave looks really freaked out.

My comments: I've seen enough scammers in action to recognize it was a a likely scam in the first video. In the 2nd video, it was a blatant scam. Art was okay with either keeping the $10k, or with sticking Dave with a deal so bad, he'd be an idiot to accept. Some people say Art was on drugs, etc, which was the reason for the behavior change. IMO, he was on drugs in the first video, and the behavior change was one of his many various scam tactics to discourage Dave from having a clean cut deal.

Was this a scam from a legal perspective? It would be hard to bring criminal charges, and a lawsuit probably would be a waste of time. But Art is clearly a well practiced scammer, and I've interreacted with other scammers exactly like Art. Almost none of Art's behavior was a mistake.

OK. Tell us how you REALLY feel.

 

[SlugLife]

OK. Tell us how you REALLY feel.

Ok, so my original rant was too short. How I really feel is.....

 

[runsongas]

@mcohen1021 bluewater might have been swapping you a credit from another customer or if they were running a group trip already to the roatan aggressor, using a comped spot

 

[Scared Silly]

Demand all you want, the complexity of these business models makes chasing the money hard. The boat owner/operator never even got the money, and the parent company won't admit they have it. Credit card charge back for not receiving what was paid for is usually the simplest option.

Save all communications, and call the CC company.

You are assuming that a CC was used. Many do not accept a CC.

For the OP curious to how you paid and the terms.

 

[mobow213]

I was booked on a Socorro Aggressor trip this winter, and just received an e-mail saying the boat had been shut down and all future trips canceled. Anyone have any additional info or insight into the Socorro Aggressor boat?

The message:


I see that this thread was also posted today, but with a bit of a different spin, saying they decided to leave, vs. being booted.

I was on the 1st trip of this season. We found missing smoke alarms, fire extinguisher not charged, and the last day had bad air in the tank. Further read made it sounds like a dive master got sick during the second charter and hospitalized

 

[mobow213]

Anytime I hear the name Aggressor it is usually followed by bad news. I would never book a trip with them.

This was my 1st bad trip on a Aggressor boat

 

[edoralive]

You are assuming that a CC was used. Many do not accept a CC.

For the OP curious to how you paid and the terms.

Paid with a CC.

This is the language on the invoices:

By paying the deposit on this booking you signify agreement to our terms of service which can be found at the following link: http://www.bluewaterdivetravel.com/terms-of-service. We are not responsible for compensating or crediting any traveler for any loss incurred due to medicalissues, family emergencies, delays or cancellations. All cancellations must be received in writing. To protect you and your vacation investment, we highly recommend you purchase Travel Insurance from a third party provider. For more information on Bluewater's recommended travel insurance plans, please visit ARCH ROAMRIGHT: Bluewater Travel's Preferred Travel Insurance Partner.

This is the language on the website:

ll cancellations must be received in writing. As a booking agent for airlines, resorts and other suppliers, Bluewater Travel is subject to the cancellation and refund policies of each contractor/supplier. Air travel is typically non-refundable. PLEASE REFER TO YOUR INVOICE FOR CANCELLATION POLICIES SPECIFIC TO YOUR RESERVATION.

Bluewater Travel reserves the right to assess additional cancellation penalties as follows:

• - 60 days or more prior to commencement of travel: $100 per person
• - 30 - 59 days prior to commencement of travel: $200 per person

There's not actually language that I can see about what happens if the trip is canceled by the operator. In a separate section it says "All deposits are non-refundable."

 

[edoralive]

I guarantee they got their money back. If they didn't, they'd be absolute idiots and go bankrupt in zero time. They almost certainly have contractual guarantees, and some means of collecting.

It's a little shocking to me that so many people are (a) buying these excuses, and (b) thinking the excuses are actually reasonable.

The e-mail from Bluewater said, "As of now they are offering credit, but we are going to give you credit that can be used on any boat, not just aggressor, so you can still go to Socorro."

Whether that's true or not, I don't know. For me, while I object to not being able to get a refund in principle, it doesn't matter that much, because I'm going to use the credit to book a different liveaboard.

 

[edoralive]

The part that makes no sense to me is how they were unwilling to issue a refund but willing to apply the money I paid to the roatan aggressor when my original payment was supposedly sent to the Siren....

I feel like, in my case, Aggressor offered Bluewater a credit, which I imagine they can use for a future trip. So they can collect the $3100 from another diver, offset it with the Aggressor credit, and still give me my credit elsewhere.

Like a very expensive shell game, except hopefully there's something under the shell.

 

[drrich2]

For me, while I object to not being able to get a refund in principle

I think many people would agree in principle. I suspect the business reality makes it impractical. A typical liveaboard might have 12-16 guests per trip. Depending on where you're going and other factors, that trip might have a base price around $2,000 - $6,000, give or take. Let's say for sake of argument 15 guests on a $4,500 liveaboard. If something happens to cancel a trip, that's 15x$4,500 = $67,500 in lost revenue.

Granted, they don't give back all that in cash immediately, but even if everyone reschedules, that means 15 'non-paying' slots on future trips. However the shell game works, that's a bunch of revenue that boat won't get.

The prolonged pandemic shutdown was harsh for the dive industry.

I doubt liveaboard fleet businesses maintain a high degree of cash on hand.

For those more insistent upon 'no trip, I want my money back, in cash, now' terms (which again, I understand), I wonder how much trip insurance can provide that option?