A rock will sink all the way to the bottom. That doesn't mean that it has the ability to come back.
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I agree that during training, recommended depths are not depths- they are black and white limits and they are not to be crossed, as the dive operator and the instructor are risking serious consequences should something happen.
If you break the speed limit while doing ur driving test - you fail. Once you pass ur test you can go whatever speed you like (assuming u aint caught
). The recommendations are purely that...
HOWEVER!
Can someone explain to me, how a recently certified Open Water Diver, can decide whether or not he or she is "ready" for their first post cert dive in 22metres of water, when they've yet to dive in 5 metres of water without an instructor or DM watching over them. Sorry, but IMHO thats just rubbish, and any dive operator who lets someone with that background, goto that depth has no interest in safety and no idea of realism, just an interest is raking in the $$$, as no doubt that diver will return because "XYZ operator doesn't make us dive within our limits".
There is no way in this world i or any of the instructors who teach at our LDS, would even suggest to any recently certified OW divers that they should just jump in a boat and go for an 18m dive. I like to think that i base my actions on safety and honesty to the students, start with simple shore dives with each other, go back to the place we did the training and dive there until you get used to planning a dive on ur own and get used to working properly with a buddy.
Gradually, and slowly is the best way. Admittedly i didn't have this point of view when I first certified, and recently certified divers may disagree with what I've said, but i do realise how important safety is, especially in the conditions we train in.
But as always, only my $0.02
SF
If you break the speed limit while doing ur driving test - you fail. Once you pass ur test you can go whatever speed you like (assuming u aint caught
). The recommendations are purely that... HOWEVER!
Can someone explain to me, how a recently certified Open Water Diver, can decide whether or not he or she is "ready" for their first post cert dive in 22metres of water, when they've yet to dive in 5 metres of water without an instructor or DM watching over them. Sorry, but IMHO thats just rubbish, and any dive operator who lets someone with that background, goto that depth has no interest in safety and no idea of realism, just an interest is raking in the $$$, as no doubt that diver will return because "XYZ operator doesn't make us dive within our limits".
There is no way in this world i or any of the instructors who teach at our LDS, would even suggest to any recently certified OW divers that they should just jump in a boat and go for an 18m dive. I like to think that i base my actions on safety and honesty to the students, start with simple shore dives with each other, go back to the place we did the training and dive there until you get used to planning a dive on ur own and get used to working properly with a buddy.
Gradually, and slowly is the best way. Admittedly i didn't have this point of view when I first certified, and recently certified divers may disagree with what I've said, but i do realise how important safety is, especially in the conditions we train in.
But as always, only my $0.02
SF
I limit 1st category divers to 25m, but I'm not a babysitter and don't check if they went deeper. If they don't blow it on 18m they won't blow it on 25m either... Might sound crazy, but they've been told their limits on the class and they can choose which ones they want to follow. (another thing to note is that I don't dive in tropics, so our average dive is allways around 30m - since that's the best place to be with all the fish and walls...)
Wijbrandus
Contributor
My first dive out of training was to 70' in 40' visibility. It was a little nervewracking, but only until I'd descended to where I could see the bottom. Then I relaxed, and had a great time. It's still my deepest dive to date. This was in Aruba.
My wife's first dive outside of training was to 70', in 30' vis, waves, and a three knot current. It was a drift dive, and our SMB line went off at a 45 degree angle. She was nervous as well until she saw the bottom after descending a ways. This was in Fort Lauderdale a few weeks ago between Charlie and Frances. She actually handled it with better intestinal fortitude than I handled my first dive.
While on one hand I agree that the 60' limit is pretty much ignored for the most part (both operators knew they had first time divers on board), the responsibility is up to the diver to make (or not make) the dive. This is something I don't think operators or instructors make enough of in training. I only learned this from my reading on ScubaBoard, otherwise I'd be another sheep following the crowd.
Thanks to my reading here, I went on my first dive with the absolute intention to thumb the dive the moment I felt I was going to far. In reality, I had a great time and felt very relaxed the whole time. On my wife's first, she was just too excited to feel any reservations, and later told me it didn't seem anywhere near 70'.
I think the hardest part on any first dive is not seeing the bottom. You feel like you are dropping to the bottom of the ocean, and you really have to overcome your instincts to make the trip. Once you've got that down, though, it's easy.
My wife's first dive outside of training was to 70', in 30' vis, waves, and a three knot current. It was a drift dive, and our SMB line went off at a 45 degree angle. She was nervous as well until she saw the bottom after descending a ways. This was in Fort Lauderdale a few weeks ago between Charlie and Frances. She actually handled it with better intestinal fortitude than I handled my first dive.
While on one hand I agree that the 60' limit is pretty much ignored for the most part (both operators knew they had first time divers on board), the responsibility is up to the diver to make (or not make) the dive. This is something I don't think operators or instructors make enough of in training. I only learned this from my reading on ScubaBoard, otherwise I'd be another sheep following the crowd.
Thanks to my reading here, I went on my first dive with the absolute intention to thumb the dive the moment I felt I was going to far. In reality, I had a great time and felt very relaxed the whole time. On my wife's first, she was just too excited to feel any reservations, and later told me it didn't seem anywhere near 70'.
I think the hardest part on any first dive is not seeing the bottom. You feel like you are dropping to the bottom of the ocean, and you really have to overcome your instincts to make the trip. Once you've got that down, though, it's easy.
cal2632
Guest
We've had only 2 dives post-certification. The first was a 'tune-up' dive in a shallow quarry (only 18 ft). The second was in Bermuda - first boat dive and we went to 72 ft. We felt very comfortable exceeding our 60 ft limits as we had a dive guide/instructor with us. I know when I first started to descend and saw how far below me the other divers were, I thought "wow, that's a long way!". But once I was down there we were fine. Regulator wasn't balanced so it pulled a little harder, but was too excited to care.
More kudos to Blue Water Divers for taking special care of us newbies. They were great!
Mona
More kudos to Blue Water Divers for taking special care of us newbies. They were great!
Mona
Xanthro
Guest
Also, the depths you acheive on your training dives, and how those depths are acheived will greatly affect your ability to handle depths early in your scuba life.
My first dive was to 47', my second dive was to 55'. This wasn't the bottom on either dive at that point. You could have still sunk deeper but had to hover. 60' wasn't anything beyond what was done in training class.
Not all classes and instructors are the same.
Xanthro
My first dive was to 47', my second dive was to 55'. This wasn't the bottom on either dive at that point. You could have still sunk deeper but had to hover. 60' wasn't anything beyond what was done in training class.
Not all classes and instructors are the same.
Xanthro
18m and 22m is a near trivial difference especially in clear water, if they're supposedly competent to dive without and supervision to 18m then under guidance to 22m is definately not going to hurt anyone at all.
Diving ISNT rocket science and at basic level really isnt that difficult.
Diving ISNT rocket science and at basic level really isnt that difficult.
hecker-the-wrecker
Guest
I'm still confused about the "open water" description. The majority of diving I do is in abandoned iron ore mine pits. The depth is up to 300ft deep. We stay around the edge and almost never go below 60ft deep,(almost never). This dosn't qualify as an, "open water" dive? I was under the impression that "open water" meant an unsupervised, outdoor dive. Now it sounds like you need to get on a boat and head out in the ocean before it's an "open water" dive?? Please explain.
Coogeeman:
"If there was any justice in the world, 'trust' would be a four letter word" Joel, 'Risky Business'
You hit the nail on the head. They are doing "trust me" dives. Despite all the depth limit recommendations and everything else, one of the enduring messages of the PADI OW course is that "trust me" dives are OK. It's the droning appeal to authority that reverberates every time the video or book says to "consult your PADI dive professional." Students are taught to trust in supervision rather than their own competence. And why not? That creates more demand for supervision, which means more people paying annual dues.
As a scuba instructor I see all to often these following things happening.
People want to be scuba diving but don't want to take the time to learn how to be responsible for themselves.
I have had in the past lots of people who own there own gear and who dive once in a while, who call for a pool refresher no class time only pool, I try to explain they may have to get the whole thing class and pool they can't time is a issue and they leave on Saturday this is a average example.
we get to the pool they go to get changed in the changing room emerge with the wet suit on backward, after changing we get go through a long Q/A about how the stuff works what we will be doing etc they also don't remember how all the gear is assembled.(That is a story all on its own)
Run through a safety check before we get in, any signs of recognition!
In the water start with mask clearing, buoyancy control or lack of now the chase is on for a hour we get to have a swim.
These people are now off to dive any where to any depth some poor D/M or such is taking them diving to who knows what depth alarms sounding and coral cuts galore will follow.
The good news is that they will be back again next year, these are the people who could be your buddy next time out sure it is a free country or world but it is about personal responsibility to be able to at least see danger for what it is this is not about a person just a observation of how we chose to dumb down danger and think how bad things can't happen to us.
People want to be scuba diving but don't want to take the time to learn how to be responsible for themselves.
I have had in the past lots of people who own there own gear and who dive once in a while, who call for a pool refresher no class time only pool, I try to explain they may have to get the whole thing class and pool they can't time is a issue and they leave on Saturday this is a average example.
we get to the pool they go to get changed in the changing room emerge with the wet suit on backward, after changing we get go through a long Q/A about how the stuff works what we will be doing etc they also don't remember how all the gear is assembled.(That is a story all on its own)
Run through a safety check before we get in, any signs of recognition!
In the water start with mask clearing, buoyancy control or lack of now the chase is on
for a hour we get to have a swim.These people are now off to dive any where to any depth some poor D/M or such is taking them diving to who knows what depth alarms sounding and coral cuts galore will follow.
The good news is that they will be back again next year, these are the people who could be your buddy next time out sure it is a free country or world but it is about personal responsibility to be able to at least see danger for what it is this is not about a person just a observation of how we chose to dumb down danger and think how bad things can't happen to us.
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