Spare Air equipment questions

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I'm fairly new to the board, but have found it to be a great resource for all the questions I have had and even some I hadn't thought of.
The one thing I have trouble understanding is everyones hatred of spare air.
The more I read the more I think spare air might be useful to someone like me. I'm one of those sissy divers (it's got to be clear and warm) that only gets to go diving three or four times a year(Long Island Sound is neither warm nor clear), although I usually get in between 2 and 4 dives each day I'm able to. I also tend to travel alone often.
Keeping all this in mind and realizing the fact that dive buddies range from great to "where the hell did he go?". I always keep the Dive Master in sight (if not always in range). So my thought is that spare air might not get me to the surface safely, but it may get me to another air source before my lungs pop like an m-80.
Let me know if my thinking is flawed. I don't own one yet, but the thought has crossed my mind.
:confused:
Jeff
 
As you probably read in the above threads, the spare airs are not immune from malfunction. However, repairing them is sometimes expensive and not all techs know how to repair them.

For the same money ~$300, you can buy a 15 cuft 'pony' tank, a real regulator and a mounting bracket to attach to your main scuba tank. You now have truly have enough 'spare air' for emergencies up to recreational depths.
 
Well, the repair issues you described is something I hadn't thought of.
As far as the pony bottle goes, I just don't don't see myself buying one. To much stuff already....bc, reg, octo, puter, snorkel, fins, mask, camcorder, housing for said camcorder, etc.
One more thing in the negative for the spare air.

Thanks for the input,

Jeff
 
Saturation,

Don't know where you been doing your shopping. Street price for 3 cuft. Spare Air is $174. Pony system as follows:

19 cuft tank: $110
Mounting system: $50
Low-end Reg: $200
Peanut SPG: $40

Peace of mind in mellow diving at depths above 60 fsw given by a Spare Air: PRICELESS!

Good product if thought through properly and not relied upon for extending bottom times, as with any reduntant air supply.

John
 
PacNWdiver once bubbled... Saturation,

Don't know where you been doing your shopping. Street price for 3 cuft. Spare Air is $174. Pony system as follows:

19 cuft tank: $110
Mounting system: $50
Low-end Reg: $200
Peanut SPG: $40

Peace of mind in mellow diving at depths above 60 fsw given by a Spare Air: PRICELESS!

Good product if thought through properly and not relied upon for extending bottom times, as with any reduntant air supply.

John
I'd skip the mounting system and SPG for starters.

The tank price we're stuck with. I think we could find a used low end reg for about $100.

Six times as much air for about $40 more is a pretty good deal.

I'm not so sure the peace of mind of a Spare Air would be based on anything. Many of the people who have tried to use them don't seem to be very impressed.
 
You can probably pick up a Spare Air on eBay for $50.

My point is.... occational, recreational divers (2-3 dives a year, usually only in warm waters, depths above 60 fsw) considering the purchase of a Spare Air should be applauded. Good for them for putting SOME thought towards safety planning. Why would you want to warn them off with heavy talk about the units being unsafe or poor performers or coerce them towards a heavy and complicated pony systems.

John
 
PacNWdiver once bubbled...
You can probably pick up a Spare Air on eBay for $50.

My point is.... occational, recreational divers (2-3 dives a year, usually only in warm waters, depths above 60 fsw) considering the purchase of a Spare Air should be applauded. Good for them for putting SOME thought towards safety planning. Why would you want to warn them off with heavy talk about the units being unsafe or poor performers or coerce them towards a heavy and complicated pony systems.

John


Because it's the wrong solution to the problem, perhaps?

I've owned one since 1991. I've done drills from 80' with it, and used it as an alternative to snorkelling in 6-10 feet of water for quick jobs.

As a diver's emergency device it is a sick joke. The unit is finicky to tune (mine once went into the shop for annual maintenance and came back from the factory 9 months later) and prone to leaks. I've had it empty unnoticed during a series of dives. Passing off a half-dead Spare Air that breathes like a stick during a "situation" is not my idea of a good time.

Spare Airs solve nothing at shallow depths that can't be averted by proper dive planning, monitoring one's gas supply, and following buddy protocol. I assume this is still being taught by the schools?

I keep my Spare Air in my dive locker so that young divers joining our group don't need to speculate about them. If they still think one might be useful after a chat they are welcome to take mine out on their next trip and play with it. So far, I've had no takers.

I used to carry my spare air clipped to the shoulder strap of my harness, tucked under my arm. A nice neat package, with no danglies. I suspect a lucky rabbit's foot would have been as streamlined, and about as useful. The only thing a Spare Air does reliably is impart a false sense of security.
 
PacNWdiver once bubbled...
Saturation,

Don't know where you been doing your shopping. Street price for 3 cuft. Spare Air is $174. Pony system as follows:

19 cuft tank: $110
Mounting system: $50
Low-end Reg: $200
Peanut SPG: $40

Peace of mind in mellow diving at depths above 60 fsw given by a Spare Air: PRICELESS!

Good product if thought through properly and not relied upon for extending bottom times, as with any reduntant air supply.

John

Hi John:

I agree with your prices except the reg, a Calypso US divers, which is a 'low end" reg is a basic piston regulator and its $135 brand new.


So the total is: $335

Further, that $110 for the pony is literally any size, from 15-40 cuft, that's a generous amount of gas.

If you're looking for peace of mind, the pony is tested and can be serviced by any dive shop.

To shave the cost of such a system, you can buy a second hand reg from the rental fleet of any dive shop, have them service it for less than $50-100, or go to a swap meet, buy a second hand reg and SPG, and have it serviced at your LDS. You'd have a system for about $200. You can save even more with a second hand pony.
 
PacNWdiver once bubbled... You can probably pick up a Spare Air on eBay for $50.
That says a lot about the system's usefulness.
PacNWdiver once bubbled... My point is.... occational, recreational divers (2-3 dives a year, usually only in warm waters, depths above 60 fsw) considering the purchase of a Spare Air should be applauded. Good for them for putting SOME thought towards safety planning. Why would you want to warn them off with heavy talk about the units being unsafe or poor performers or coerce them towards a heavy and complicated pony systems.

John
I think a Spare Air is less useful than a rabbit's foot.

Why would I advise someone to buy something that will only meet the stated need in a very narrow range of circumstances?

I don't see how a pony is complicated. It is considerably easier to keep running than a Spare Air.
 
Any recreational diver wishing to consider an alternative air source should be commended for foresight and contingency planning.

But those of you who debate one bottle or another are approaching the issue from the wrong direction. The size of the bottle is not the first consideration.

First, figure out what you need IN the bottle. THEN, select a bottle.

Any recreational diver should be able to calculate their Surface Air Consumption rate. This is simple arithmetic. To turn your SAC into your Respiratory Minute Volume (RMV) is more simple arithmetic. Basically this tells you how rapidly you will consume your gas supply.

When you figure yours out, chances are likely that under relaxed feel-good conditions, you'll have an RMV somewhere between .5 to .8. That means that each minute you will consume an average of approximately .6 or .7 of a cubic foot of gas.

When you respond to an emergency situation, however, your heart starts pounding with anxiety and your respiration rate soars rapidly. One general planning figure is 1.0, although some divers have suggested using a figure of 1.2 or 1.3 and they are likely closer to reality. This means for planning purposes, plan on consuming a minumum of 1 cubic foot per minute (cfm) during a real emergency, and its safer to plan using a figure of 1.2 cfm.

You carry an alternate air source so that you don't have to bolt dangerously to the surface. Particularly if you've been diving deeper than 80'-90', this includes allowing for a 3 minute safety stop. A safe ascent rate if you've been diving to depths of between 80' and 120' would be 30 feet per minute.

As an example, planning an emergency ascent from 120', with an ascent rate of 30 fpm and a 1 minute ascent the last 10', would look something like this:

time to assess emergency and transition to ABS: 1 minute
time to ascend from 120' to 10': ~ 4 minutes
safety stop at 10': 3 minutes
ascent to surface: 1 minute

Add it up for 9 minutes and multiply by an emergency breathing rate of 1.2 cubic feet of gas per minute to get a planning figure of 10.8 cubic feet, or round up to 11 cubic feet.

Then consider that emergencies at 120' may be resolveable in one minute, but then again, what if you need three minutes? What if someone needs assistance? If you give yourself four minutes at depth to resolve some unforseen problem, your total cubic feet needed increases to 14 cubic feet (using the 1.2 cfm RMV).

After you've calculated that you might require 14 cubic feet of gas to safely respond to a problem at 120' and make a safe ascent, THEN select the bottle you want to use to carry it in.

Well, you could use a 13 cu ft Luxfer (at a minimum). There is a 14 cubic foot Luxfer (LP @ 2015 psi). Or, you could step up to a 19 cubic foot Luxfer. You likely would reject a 3 cubic foot Spare Air, for obvious reasons.

[And for those who wondered about the scorn that most experienced divers have for spare air systems, it has to do with the above calculations. If you habitually stick to depths of 20 to 30 feet, the 3 cfm in a spare air may work for you. But for the majority of divers, under a majority of circumstances, your own calculations are likely to indicate that Spare Air holds an insufficient amount of gas for your circumstances. Some divers perceive the company to be selling a false sense of security to the uninformed.]

The point is that arguing over which bottle you'd prefer is the wrong way to start. Figure out how much gas you'd need, under your own circumstances. Then pick the bottle.

If you don't know how fast you'd suck gas in a real emergency, use the 1.2 cubic feet per minute figure. You certainly won't be far off. If you want to live dangerously, use a faster ascent rate. It isn't necessary, but if you want to use another figure, fine. If you're not sure, use an ascent rate of 30 feet per minute. But first calculate how much gas you'd require under your own circumstances, THEN pick the tank it will go in.

I suggest that's a better way to go about contingency planning.

My .02 worth. YMMV.

Doc
 

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