Split Fins and Rescue Course

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I get it Dan. What I'm "objecting" to is the inference that they're a universal solution. They're not. Maybe for where you dive they're fine ... but there are reasons why nobody ... NOBODY ... in my area who scuba dives wears freediving fins. Among those reasons is the foot pocket, which is full-foot and stiff ... which is, by design, to enable the most efficient transfer of energy from the kicker to the fin. Try shoving something like that onto a drysuit or rock boot ... or even a sturdy wetsuit bootie. It won't work ... the foot pockets are designed for bare feet or neoprene socks, and a tight fit is essential to get the performance out of the fin.

I get that they work for you, Dan ... but keep in mind that the people reading your posts won't necessarily be diving in the same conditions you do. As with any piece of gear, they have advantages and drawbacks depending on how and where you're using them, and those caveats need to be included in the recommendation ...
Great answer to my obsessive ranting :)
And while very true that 99.9% of dive shops with freedive fins don't know about this....most freedivers do...and here in Palm Beach, several dive shops know this as well.... the photos are of my favorite DiveRs...which have the Riffe silent Hunter open heel pocket--I got this originally to use with my DUI TLS 350 ( no rock boots--just use normal soled/to thin soled booties with socks inside). I found out that this particular pocket is structurally superior for the big stiff Dive R blades, so it transfers power better --though this is not needed with the medium and soft blades...where full foot pockets are quite awesome ( but no good for Drysuit divers).....Now if you do need to wear Rockboots, because you need essentially military grade hiking boots to get into waiste or shoulder depth water...then these Silent Hunter pockets will not help you--they won't take the super fat soles of Rock boots or equivalents....

See photos...
20140213_111631-1.jpg

20140213_111639-1.jpg
 
I didn't read the thread properly, but 'no', the Rescue Diver course doesn't teach specific techniques for rescuing split-fin victims. Many of the more generic rescue techniques would apply though...


:wink:
 
I'm going to cut an old pair of Jets into split fins just to see how many heads will explode.

Plus, I want my tombstone to read, "Killed by Split Jet Fins"
 
I'm going to cut an old pair of Jets into split fins just to see how many heads will explode.

I once had an entry-level tech student that turned up for training with a pair of Mares Quattros self-cut into split fin design (?!?). They lasted one dive... and then he was renting Jets. LOL
 
I use freedive fins for all reef diving with scuba.....If I am doing serious wreck penetrations, I use Extra Force fins.
Why would you suggest that I would not use freedive fins forever ( you meaning most of the time) ?

I was actually referring to the original post, not you. and the point of the post is use the equipment you normally use.
 
Bob,
In all honesty, I did not make that post as an attempt to sound like I do things everyone else could not do.....

In fact, my belief, is that if you or I were to take the "typical" diver...typical fitness....and put a "Soft" pair of freediving fins on them, we could show then the correct kick shape, the several primary kick styles to use, and then give them some feedback over the next hour....then these people would be blown away with the new potentials they never imagined were possible for them before...

Unlike Jets or Hollis or other paddle fins anyone talks about here.....MOST freedive fin makes come in several different stiffnesses....much like Golf clubs come in Drivers, 5 woods, 8 irons, and putters....etc....the Freedive concept is to get the fin that is ideal for the kind of dive you will be doing.....It is essentially giving you fins perfectly targeted for divers with low muscle fitness, or at the stiffer end of the spectrum, fins targeted to divers that are quite fit.
The original intention, was for spearfishing competitions that could last 8 hours, a freediver would need a very soft fin to kick for that long....soft and very efficient to protect the stored energy of the diver( glycogen supply and ability of muscles to keep working) .....and on the other side of the spectrum, on normal dive days, the freediver might want to do drops on a 30 foot reef, or a 70 foot reef, or a 110 foot deep reef...each depth has a different ideal "gear size", for the "push" of the blade(stiffness)....If a freediver drops deep, they will want the big gear to leverage muscle with little aerobic needs ( anaerobic power) and allow fewer big kicks to get them back up ( rather than the high frequency kicking that would take place with soft bladed freedive fins---which don't really leverage anaerobic power as much as they do aerobic power) ... On a 30 foot reef, it is very easy to dive for many hours with the soft blades, or medium blades....and you don't need the big gear of the stiff blades--and the downside of the stiff/deep drop blades is that even a fit freediver will only have the juice to do this for an hour or 2 at most....

Scuba divers do not swim anywhere near as much as freedivers do...so even the stiff blades are fine for a fit scuba diver doing 3 dives in a day off a boat....but....most scuba divers would find the soft blades much more comfortable, and easier to control with precision.

The soft fin most scuba divers can see in a shop, is the LD Cressi 3000..the LD for long distance, meaning it is the soft fin. There are much better freedive fins than Cressi...they are kind of the cheap economy car of freedive fins...but they are still massively superior to jet fins or hollis fins..or splits :)
Much better would be Mako, or Specialfins.com , or DiveR , or almost any composite material bladed freedive fin. They push easier, and return more energy at the end of each kick..almost like there is someone behind you shoving you forward after each kick.

I have put many friends that were NOT athletes into freedive fins..soft ones, and they very quickly came to love these...and dive with nothing else.
This is where I was coming from....

Whilst I understand where you are coming from, one has to also consider things like luggage. Free dive fins are like surfboards, and my V-16 were even too long, where as the Hollis are somewhat shorter and pack easily. Yes they don't have the thrust of the free dive fins, but they suit my purpose overall. So I guess for many people its about the best compromise.

Perhaps I could get some free dive fins then cut them back short like my Hollis F2 so they pack easy .......... Would that give me the edge :D Dan
 
Whilst I understand where you are coming from, one has to also consider things like luggage. Free dive fins are like surfboards, and my V-16 were even too long, where as the Hollis are somewhat shorter and pack easily. Yes they don't have the thrust of the free dive fins, but they suit my purpose overall. So I guess for many people its about the best compromise.

Perhaps I could get some free dive fins then cut them back short like my Hollis F2 so they pack easy .......... Would that give me the edge :D Dan

I guess this has more to do with THE EXPERIENCE you want to have when you get to a place where you think the diving will be really good--and how you can engage maximally for the best appreciation.....In a similar type of consideration as you mention, Sandra and I did some trips to Italy a few years ago--the idea was to bike ride on some of the best mountain roads for cycling in the world...and to enjoy the local beauty etc.....Some of our friends really wrestled with the idea of the major pain it would be to SHIP their bikes, and they thought about the alternative to try and RENT a decent bike in the town we would stay near.....Afterall--you would expect a cycling capitol of the world like this to have great bike choices available for rent--at least compared to Florida.....In the end, most of us shipped our own bikes..one couple did rent...and was sorry they did. The thing is, the mountain switchbacks were like a DREAM...the intensity of these mountain rides was beyond anything we had ever experienced....I knew it would be good---and no matter what, I wanted MY bike--I know my bike, how tight I can push it in a turn, no matter what the terrain would throw at me, I want the best bike possible to appreciate the ride, in the best way possible--and it would be no time to start out with some other bike I am not dialed in on, that potentially would create an inferior experience....My Pinarello Prince WAS worth the effort to get it there, by the way...I have some great stories about the rides that could relay this, but I think this is enough on this here.....
With our Trip to Fiji, to dive, it was the same deal.....I wanted my gear--what gives me the best extension of what I can do....and that was clearly including me freedive fins. They fit easily enough diagonally in my big suitcase, as did Sandra's freedive fins. There was no need to worry about whether they would fit into a dive bag. In the scheme of things, this was nothing compared to the pain of bringing Sandra's camera gear :) ..Again, their was no way we would compromise...no one should on such a thing. Not unless the diving is expected to be nasty, and boring, and something you absolutely don't care about.


The ONLY things I won't do with my DiveR Freedive fins, are Cave diving, and exploration level Wreck penetrations with tight overheads...if the inside of the wreck is full height, I will often use the freedive fins, and they offer the better stability lever for video if I need to be swimming and shooting. If the wreck is tight, the Extra Force Force fins are the best alternative I have found by a wide margin--I have both Jet fins and Hollis....they are pathetic compared to the Extra Force fins.
And of course, the jets are far better than any splits :)

[video=youtube_share;vGB8XNq8QF0]http://youtu.be/vGB8XNq8QF0[/video]

This is the type of wreck penetration I prefer to do with the freedive fins....I have absolutely no silting potential on a wreck like this, and the smoothness I get with each kick ( because the frequency is slow, and the fins actually stabilize you in all directions, even longitudinal)...Now on this wreck ( the Mispah), there is an opening to the floor BELOW the one I am in here....it is tight to get in, and the vertical is only a few fewer high....and is sandy....it would NOT be a freedive fin excursion :)
 
I guess this has more to do with THE EXPERIENCE you want to have when you get to a place where you think the diving will be really good--and how you can engage maximally for the best appreciation.....In a similar type of consideration as you mention, Sandra and I did some trips to Italy a few years ago--the idea was to bike ride on some of the best mountain roads for cycling in the world...and to enjoy the local beauty etc.....Some of our friends really wrestled with the idea of the major pain it would be to SHIP their bikes, and they thought about the alternative to try and RENT a decent bike in the town we would stay near.....Afterall--you would expect a cycling capitol of the world like this to have great bike choices available for rent--at least compared to Florida.....In the end, most of us shipped our own bikes..one couple did rent...and was sorry they did. The thing is, the mountain switchbacks were like a DREAM...the intensity of these mountain rides was beyond anything we had ever experienced....I knew it would be good---and no matter what, I wanted MY bike--I know my bike, how tight I can push it in a turn, no matter what the terrain would throw at me, I want the best bike possible to appreciate the ride, in the best way possible--and it would be no time to start out with some other bike I am not dialed in on, that potentially would create an inferior experience....My Pinarello Prince WAS worth the effort to get it there, by the way...I have some great stories about the rides that could relay this, but I think this is enough on this here.....
With our Trip to Fiji, to dive, it was the same deal.....I wanted my gear--what gives me the best extension of what I can do....and that was clearly including me freedive fins. They fit easily enough diagonally in my big suitcase, as did Sandra's freedive fins. There was no need to worry about whether they would fit into a dive bag. In the scheme of things, this was nothing compared to the pain of bringing Sandra's camera gear :) ..Again, their was no way we would compromise...no one should on such a thing. Not unless the diving is expected to be nasty, and boring, and something you absolutely don't care about.


The ONLY things I won't do with my DiveR Freedive fins, are Cave diving, and exploration level Wreck penetrations with tight overheads...if the inside of the wreck is full height, I will often use the freedive fins, and they offer the better stability lever for video if I need to be swimming and shooting. If the wreck is tight, the Extra Force Force fins are the best alternative I have found by a wide margin--I have both Jet fins and Hollis....they are pathetic compared to the Extra Force fins.
And of course, the jets are far better than any splits :)

[video=youtube_share;vGB8XNq8QF0]http://youtu.be/vGB8XNq8QF0[/video]

This is the type of wreck penetration I prefer to do with the freedive fins....I have absolutely no silting potential on a wreck like this, and the smoothness I get with each kick ( because the frequency is slow, and the fins actually stabilize you in all directions, even longitudinal)...Now on this wreck ( the Mispah), there is an opening to the floor BELOW the one I am in here....it is tight to get in, and the vertical is only a few fewer high....and is sandy....it would NOT be a freedive fin excursion :)

Dan, you really should lighten up. I was (as we aussies put it) taking the piss out of you. Life should not be this serious. Live and laugh and never take us mere mortal divers too seriously.

Laugh at yourself and others laugh with you. We all relax and become better for the interaction.

You clearly love your diving as we all do here. "Go with the current Obie One Canobi, don't fight the Force"
 

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