Split from: Cozumel Incident - Fake C Cards?

[mhegenbarth]

I knew this diver very well as she was a long time friend and colleague. While I cannot speak to her official diving credentials I know that she was a long-time diver since a young age; she was a compulsive and careful physician unlikely to "fake" a c-card etc. For those of us grieving for her and trying to make sense of what happened it would be more helpful to have real details and I hope they will be forthcoming.

 

[dmoore19]

Been to Coz many times and not asked for a C-card.
Was in the Bahamas with a guy that had a legit C-card and knew NOTHING. He'd paid $25USD for it in Mexico City. Wanna guess what agency?
Bill

Did you report the guy with the unearned card purchased to that "agency" along with the name of the guy and the shop where it was purchased? Or to the dive op you 2 were using? What, did you do to stop the obivously untrained guy from diving? I would think that as a diver it would be incumbent on your part to make sure this untrained diver was not allowed to dive.

 

[Beyond_Diving]

Been to Coz many times and not asked for a C-card.
Was in the Bahamas with a guy that had a legit C-card and knew NOTHING. He'd paid $25USD for it in Mexico City. Wanna guess what agency?
Bill

as a course director don't you think you're obligated to report such an incident to the issuing agency?
Also, who cares what agency the card is from ("Wanna guess what agency?" comment). It's not the agency that "certifies" the diver... the instructor signing off on it is the one to blame. If the agency receives all the documentation stating that the student qualified for that level of certification, they take the word of the instructor. now if you had proof that the diver basically just paid for the card without successfully fulfilling the requirements, you should have reported it at the time... my $0.02

 

[fnfalman]

Since that the activity of scuba diving itself is not governed by any law that I know of, there's no reason why one would need a C-Card. Hell, let them sign the waivers and let them do their things.

 

[Gombessa]

Fake c-card? In today's days/times, I can't say I'm surprised but I never even considered that would be a possibility.

Disclaimer: I don't know the deal with the Coz incident thread...

But this topic was interesting, and my first thought was, "Why would anyone ever bother going to the trouble of getting a fake c-card?" Maybe someone completely clueless to the fact that scuba diving has risks?

Or maybe someone who learned to dive years ago before there were certifying agencies, and didn't want to pay the expense or take the time to go through what they already know, just to dive at a resort?

Then, that thought got me thinking. What if I'm a certified diver who just forgot/lost my cards and logs on a big dive vacation, and the facilities didn't have a way of verifying with my agency? Would I buy a $25 fake card off some guy? Hmm...I might not immediately dismiss it...

 

[DandyDon]

I've dove a lot of places in the Caribbean; Coz, Grand Cayman, Belize, Roatan, Aruba, Bonaire, and Bahamas. I was only once asked from my C-Card, and that was on the only liveaboard I've taken and was in the Bahamas.

That said, almost every place (I can't remember not having to) has had me fill out forms, indicating my Cert level and cert number, along with my most recent dive date and some other dive related info. I've always filled out the forms, but have never been asked for my card to verify that I didn't manufacture the data. Also, never have I ever been asked to show my log book to a dive op or an instructor. But, I'd dove many many times with each my instructors, so they pretty much had first hand knowledge of my diving.

It's rare that anyone ever looks at my C-cards anywhere, US or away - just the paperwork. I fill it out honestly, except I may make up numbers of the C-card. My DAN card is make sure is correct on the paperwork and I may even leave a blown-up photocopy with the Op.

I knew this diver very well as she was a long time friend and colleague. While I cannot speak to her official diving credentials I know that she was a long-time diver since a young age; she was a compulsive and careful physician unlikely to "fake" a c-card etc. For those of us grieving for her and trying to make sense of what happened it would be more helpful to have real details and I hope they will be forthcoming.

MHegen welcome to SB, and I am sorry your joining is under such sad conditions. Really, we seem to have very little in the way of facts and your post is the first real confirmation that a diver was indeed lost. News of accidents on Cozumel rarely makes it to the internet unless other divers with info report it; I really suspect that the island officials suppress such news as bad for tourism.

I am glad to hear that it wasn't a sloppy Resort course with too many uncertified divers I guess, even tho still a loss of your friend, one of our own. Your post got moved along with side posts on C-cards tho, so you may want to subscribe or post to the accident thread again? http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/311327-cozumel-incident.html

We do have a special forum for Condolences where many of us do like to share our regrets for the losses of fellow divers, whether we knew them or not. Perhaps you might like to start a new thread there for your friend's loss: I knew this diver very well as she was a long time friend and colleague. While I cannot speak to her official diving credentials I know that she was a long-time diver since a young age; she was a compulsive and careful physician unlikely to "fake" a c-card etc. For those of us grieving for her and trying to make sense of what happened it would be more helpful to have real details and I hope they will be forthcoming.[/QUOTE]"]Passings Forum

 

[dmoore19]

Since that the activity of scuba diving itself is not governed by any law that I know of, there's no reason why one would need a C-Card. Hell, let them sign the waivers and let them do their things.

Not wanting to offend you or anyone else but, If you knew that the guy was not trained and you knew he presented false credentials and you knew this for a fact, if the guy died, wouldn't you be culpable, waivers or not? I would think so. I know that Scuba is supposed to be self policing, or at least I thought it was. If the dive op is is associated with one of these agencies I would think they could lose their association. I don't know, just speculating. But, knowing what I know right now, 1) I would refuse to be his buddy, 2) I would call attention to the "fake" C-card with the dive operator. Thats just me!

 

[Michael Folise]

"except I may make up numbers of the C-card" DandyDon, why would you do that?

On another matter, I have had a dive operator review my log book (cenote dives in Mexico). Eqivalent of cheking a C-card?

 

[Gombessa]

"except I may make up numbers of the C-card" DandyDon, why would you do that?

On another matter, I have had a dive operator review my log book (cenote dives in Mexico). Eqivalent of cheking a C-card?

One thing to consider - I heard that until recently(?), NAUI used your SSN as your cert number. If that's true, I personally wouldn't have any qualms refusing to put down a number at some random charter/resort.

 

[Ytsejam]

But this topic was interesting, and my first thought was, "Why would anyone ever bother going to the trouble of getting a fake c-card?" Maybe someone completely clueless to the fact that scuba diving has risks?

Maybe for the same reason a guy I know and have dived with, likes to "log" fictional dives among his real ones in his log book. Even Einstein was convinced that human stupidity knows no boundaries...

Then, that thought got me thinking. What if I'm a certified diver who just forgot/lost my cards and logs on a big dive vacation, and the facilities didn't have a way of verifying with my agency? Would I buy a $25 fake card off some guy? Hmm...I might not immediately dismiss it...

Understandable, but that same guy effectivelly sells to idiots licences to kill themselves, making at the same time unwitting accomplices out of the air fill providers and other dive professionals. So hopefully you'd also consider reporting him and not helping him stay in "business"