Still confused about lift

[dumpsterDiver]

Never said anything about getting another diver to the surface. Its correct you use other means to get them there whenever possible. On the surface it is nice having a little extra lift, a little mind you as 8-9 lbs (23 vs 32) is not a lot. It is possible for a diver whose weights have been dumped to still be negative. Steel tanks, doubles, etc.

While we are ditching their rig, that they may not be able to inflate, I personally want that little extra lift. You can't always know what another diver you come across needing assistance is using. Or where they have weight stashed or how much they are using. A newer diver does not need to be struggling to stay afloat by using a wing that has just enough lift for them when helping someone out.

A 40 or 50 lb would be overkill. Unless you're raising a guy in doubles. A 30-32 is not.

Being able to have that little extra lift in my wing is nice. If they are tired they don't have to kick while we are getting their BC off. I can better support them with that little extra lift. If a non responsive diver is ooa however and I can't inflate their BC from behind them in a rescue position I may use my wing to get us started up. I may have to use my wing for buoyancy unless I'm sure they are dead. I'm not going to drop a belt from them with 25 lbs of lead on them at depth. Sure way to send us both on an express ride up. Rather use all the lift I have and drop theirs where its safer to do so at the surface.

Absolutely! We have idiots diving very heavy steel tanks with no ditchable lead. They have a BC failure, fight to reach the surface, run low on air, get their breathing rate up and then you come upon the diver??? You are DEFINITELY going to appreciate some extra lift capacity in your own BC. Having 10-12 lbs of excess lift capacity provides you a lot of options that could be very important if/when you need them.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Absolutely! We have idiots diving very heavy steel tanks with no ditchable lead. They have a BC failure, fight to reach the surface, run low on air, get their breathing rate up and then you come upon the diver??? You are DEFINITELY going to appreciate some extra lift capacity in your own BC. Having 10-12 lbs of excess lift capacity provides you a lot of options that could be very important if/when you need them.

A bigger wing is *never* the answer to being over weighted. If a diver is properly weighted the impacts of panic or a buoyancy device failure is quite small.

Tobin

 

[ronscuba]

....
On Scubaboard there are two "camps" regarding lift requirements. The first group recommends using the smallest size wing possible. They claim a smaller wing is easier to vent and more streamline. The second camp recommends having a larger wing because it is more adaptable and has a safety margin. The extra drag in negligible and most find larger wings are no problem to vent. .....

A small wing is easier to vent, more streamlined, packs smaller and lighter. A bigger wing is more adaptable and it does have a bigger safety margin. Both true and valid recommendations.

Some put adaptability and safety margin at a higher priority than venting ability, streamline and packing size. Others, it's the opposite.

It's really not who is wrong or right. It's making a decision based on your own priorities. Some of us are gear junkies and we end up buying both.

 

[eelnoraa]

Everyone's opinions and experiences are a little different. Easy to see why many new divers get confused.

Like the thread starter, I am a warm water travel diver. My 1st wing was a Oxy 30. The fact that it was only a little bigger than the various travel wings and it is versatile enough to be used for cold water, is true and makes sense.

About a year later I bought a DSS 17. It packs much smaller than my Oxy 30. It vents way easier and it dives much more streamlined. For me, where diving is 90% warm water travel, it was money well spent. I frequently have conversations with dive staff at tropical locations. They either have a similar small wing or tell me they want one.

The problem here is Oxycheq wing. It just doesn't pack very well. My Halcyon Evolve 60lb pack smaller than my Oxycheq single wing. My Eclipse 30 pack much smaller than my Oxycheq single wing. I am sure DSS17 will pack smaller too, but not by much. I actually did have a DSS17 once. I used it a few time in Southeast Asian and left it with my cousin. I just don't use it enough to justifying owning one, and I really didn't feel it vent easier or any less drag than my Halcyon 30lb, at least not that I can notice. What I notice is on surface, my head is a lot higher above water

 

[ronscuba]

The problem here is Oxycheq wing. It just doesn't pack very well. My Halcyon Evolve 60lb pack smaller than my Oxycheq single wing. My Eclipse 30 pack much smaller than my Oxycheq single wing. I am sure DSS17 will pack smaller too, but not by much. I actually did have a DSS17 once. I used it a few time in Southeast Asian and left it with my cousin. I just don't use it enough to justifying owning one, and I really didn't feel it vent easier or any less drag than my Halcyon 30lb, at least not that I can notice. What I notice is on surface, my head is a lot higher above water

Seems most of the wing various wing mfrs. have many satisfied customers. I've heard good things about Halcyon wings, but I have not dove with one. I have a DSS 17, Oxy 30 and DR 25. All good wings. The DSS is the smallest, easiest to pack and definitely a lot easier to vent than the others. I found I had to tilt or move my body to vent the OXY and DR. Could be the wing size, the vent location, the wing design, or all of the above. I do notice differences in streamlining since I shoot video and sometimes need to fight current to maintain position.

I should sell my Oxy 30. I never use it.

 

[ams511]

A small wing is easier to vent, more streamlined, packs smaller and lighter. A bigger wing is more adaptable and it does have a bigger safety margin. Both true and valid recommendations.

Some put adaptability and safety margin at a higher priority than venting ability, streamline and packing size. Others, it's the opposite.

It's really not who is wrong or right. It's making a decision based on your own priorities. Some of us are gear junkies and we end up buying both.

I agree with Aaron. The size of the wing has less to do with packing than material of the shell. Wings with a stiff outer shell like Oxycheq are more difficult to pack. If you compare wing dimensions there is not much difference between a 20 lb lift wing and a 30 lb. In my opinion, ease of venting has to do more with the design of the wing than the size. I never had a problem venting nor noticed much of a difference between my DSS 20, Halcyon 30, and UTD 37.

 

[ronscuba]

I agree with Aaron. The size of the wing has less to do with packing than material of the shell. Wings with a stiff outer shell like Oxycheq are more difficult to pack. If you compare wing dimensions there is not much difference between a 20 lb lift wing and a 30 lb. In my opinion, ease of venting has to do more with the design of the wing than the size. I never had a problem venting nor noticed much of a difference between my DSS 20, Halcyon 30, and UTD 37.

Having never dove a Halcyon or UTD, I believe you about the venting.

The differences I notice are probably more about design of the Oxy, DSS and DR. However, I dive with no weight and no wetsuit. I am negative. I have very little air in my wing.

Here is me wearing the DSS 17. I'm a small guy. My wife is even smaller. The top of the wing is arc'ed smaller and the vent is in the middle of this smaller section. I think the vent location, wing design and wing size, combine to make it extremely easy to vent.

Curious, do you use all 3 of your wings ? If so, in what situations ?

 

[eelnoraa]

Seems most of the wing various wing mfrs. have many satisfied customers. I've heard good things about Halcyon wings, but I have not dove with one. I have a DSS 17, Oxy 30 and DR 25. All good wings. The DSS is the smallest, easiest to pack and definitely a lot easier to vent than the others. I found I had to tilt or move my body to vent the OXY and DR. Could be the wing size, the vent location, the wing design, or all of the above. I do notice differences in streamlining since I shoot video and sometimes need to fight current to maintain position.

I should sell my Oxy 30. I never use it.

I have never own a DR25 wing, so can't comment on its venting ability. But for Oxycheq, the issue is their inner bladder design. The inner bladder is a lot bigger than the shell. It is folded inside on all edge. See attached picture. I can see air gets trapped in the fold. Compare my Oxycheq vs my Halcyon, the H vent noticeably easier and quicker. I unless the wing is ridiculously big, the venting ability has more to do with the design.

Overall, I must say I am happy with Oxycheq wing. It is very tough, decent dive. But DSS and Halcyon definitely design better wings

 

[ronscuba]

To be fair, my Dive Rite travel wing is over 10yrs old. It's a square design with the vent located high in the left corner. Dive Rites newer wings are different and might vent better.

My OXY 30 definitely has a very tough durable outer shell. If I was a cave or wreck diver, I might appreciate that aspect more than ease of venting.

 

[mi000ke]

Just had a great conversation with Tobin, and I see a DSS 20 in my future - still deciding on ss or kydex depending on my travel weight constraints. Thanks to all for your input.