Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[formernuke]

How should it be done?

The IE is totally up the examiner.

When I did mine 3 of us failed. One because he should have done it in Spanish not English.

Me and one other because the examiner decided to add a standard with telling us at the briefing that he wanted above the standard. Both of us passed second with near perfect scores.

 

[CHenderson]

I should note that Snow failed her first attempt at passing the IDC at RRCDC. So it isn't a 100% pass rate.

Did not know that but thank you for clarifying. I just know that they, Rainbow Reef, proudly proclaim 100% pass rate. I am relatively inexperienced even though I was first certified in 1978, several years no diving after moved to the midwest. A few years ago after retiring from the military, I decided to pursue again because as you probably agree, it is one of the most enjoyable experiences one can have. I have a lot to learn still and the more I dive, the more I respect (call it a healthy fear of) our sport. In my brief re intro to the sport I've already witnessed one tragic accident on a deep wreck. As I dive different locations and different shops, I am becoming increasingly aware that, I will go as far as to say most (do not get offended if this doesn't apply to your operation) instructors seem like they just want to get through it, passing students who IMO are a danger to themselves. I got this same feeling as I was progressing through the DM course. I see instructors who pay lip service to Pre Dive Safety checks and even after teaching the importance of this they literally skip them altogether in a race to get students into the water during their first OW dive.

 

[CHenderson]

The IE is totally up the examiner.

When I did mine 3 of us failed. One because he should have done it in Spanish not English.

Me and one other because the examiner decided to add a standard with telling us at the briefing that he wanted above the standard. Both of us passed second with near perfect scores.

Any recommendations on a good IDC? I'm looking at Utila Dive Center. Even though I'm in Indiana, most of my diving is the winter months in FL and hopefully some other warm water destinations.

 

[formernuke]

Any recommendations on a good IDC? I'm looking at Utila Dive Center. Even though I'm in Indiana, most of my diving is the winter months in FL and hopefully some other warm water destinations.

There is one in FL I've heard is really good.

PADI IDC in Florida | Inexpensive diver instructor training | EASE

EASE is a VA-approved PADI Career Development Center in Florida offering free meals and accommodations for the Instructor Development Course (IDC) and other scuba instructor courses.

www.easedivepro.com

 

[Manatee Diver]

A few years ago after retiring from the military, I decided to pursue again because as you probably agree, it is one of the most enjoyable experiences one can have.

I'm not a Pro diver, and have little desire to become one.

My general opinion of boot camp like courses coming from other industries is that they are great if you are already experienced in the subject matter. And just need to transition over, like in the IT industry doing a Linux Administration boot camp or a C# boot camp; tjese courses are great for seasoned professionals that just need to get up to speed with a new technology, but are horrible for some of the newcomers attempting to use it to boot strap their careers. If I ever got the desire to become an instructor being a moderately experienced diver, I might do a boot camp IDC like RRCDC. But for new inexperienced divers I feel that the longer intern style, which RRCDC offers as well, is more appropriate.

 

[formernuke]

I'm not a Pro diver, and have little desire to become one.

My general opinion of boot camp like courses coming from other industries is that they are great if you are already experienced in the subject matter. And just need to transition over, like in the IT industry doing a Linux Administration boot camp or a C# boot camp; tjese courses are great for seasoned professionals that just need to get up to speed with a new technology, but are horrible for some of the newcomers attempting to use it to boot strap their careers. If I ever got the desire to become an instructor being a moderately experienced diver, I might do a boot camp IDC like RRCDC. But for new inexperienced divers I feel that the longer intern style, which RRCDC offers as well, is more appropriate.

Problem is the intern is a rush to get minimum needed and then DM and IDC. And just done the way they want it. On knees pure warm water etc. The instructor I withdrew from was one of those and again he didn't even know basic dive safety. But if that's all you've been taught then you think it's ok.

 

[CHenderson]

You pass the IDC not necessarily the IE.

As for the IE pass or fail on that isn't a real judge of things

Without sounding like some kind of hard ass, which I am not, I do not think everyone is Instructor material. Heck, I may not be, but I do choose Holiday Inn Express for my overnight stays. For some of the reasons I see mentioned in these threads, mostly related to how someone reacts to stressors, the standards for instructors needs to be higher and the training more rigorous. Even as a relatively inexperienced diver, I am recognizing failures and weaknesses of the people who are supposed to be keeping other people safe. Referring to DM's and Instructors and in some cases boat captains and crew. I watched as an unresponsive diver surfaced quickly from over 100 ft and the dive charter boat captain and their crew (in closer proximity than our vessel) sat and watched as the diver floated facedown. Our DM had to swim approximately 200 ft to get her flipped over and assist in the rescue before they even responded. Not here to bash any operation, I'm just saying that many instructors, DM's, operations are either unqualified or complacent and that gets people killed. I would also add that instructors should be reevaluated / tested with some degree of frequency, especially if they have been inactive. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Outbound]

I'm only a DM and not an instructor, although one day I may pursue an IDC. But my opinion is that IDCs should be done in conditions/locations where the person is going to be working or hopes to be working. I don't know where Snow lived and dived before her IDC, but it seems to me that learning how to teach students in warm water is very different from teaching students in cold water when both the instructor and the students are wearing two-piece 7mm suits (or drysuits), hoods, and gloves and visibility and mobility is limited. But this is my opinion, so I'm curious to hear what the instructors out there have to say.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Problem is the intern is a rush to get minimum needed and then DM and IDC. And just done the way they want it. On knees pure warm water etc. The instructor I withdrew from was one of those and again he didn't even know basic dive safety. But if that's all you've been taught then you think it's ok.

That is one of those cases where you have to hold people to standards. Which IIRC PADI requires the IDC skill circuit to be done in neutral buoyancy now. Of course that might make a CDC less desirable for some over others that don't hold people to those standards.

I also think that those internships might be best done part time locally. My local shop does DM and IDCs locally and they typically take a few months. I've seen them in the water they are pretty good for their experience level.

 

[formernuke]

I'm only a DM and not an instructor, although one day I may pursue an IDC. But my opinion is that IDCs should be done in conditions/locations where the person is going to be working or hopes to be working. I don't know where Snow lived and dived before her IDC, but it seems to me that learning how to teach students in warm water is very different from teaching students in cold water when both the instructor and the students are wearing two-piece 7mm suits (or drysuits), hoods, and gloves and visibility and mobility is limited. But this is my opinion, so I'm curious to hear what the instructors out there have to say.

Depends ideally yes. It was not really a option for me. The instructor should have intensive knowledge of the place they will be teaching.