The great Spare Air / SpareAir topic

[sumguy]

CESA - Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent.
May just be a PADI term.

 

[Blargh]

I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who knew a guy on a mailing list who claimed to use spare air when floating down the Cam in summer looking for crayfish, at a depth of about ... cant quite remember now... must be a whole ten feet or thereabouts.


Notes:
1) Cam: river in eastern UK, goes through a town called Cam-bridge.
2) The guy in question might have been using an argon bottle (1 litre, filled with air obviosly), not an spare air.
3) Might have been freshwater scallops.

And a question to our intrepid spare air defenders - would you prefer the single, nitrox or twin version ?
:drown: :reaper:

 

[ymy]

sumguy,

Not sure I can say how fast I was swimming. I wasn't finning like crazy, but I wasn't delibrately slowing my "ascent" either. I guess I didn't start with a complete breath of air because I took the time to ditch my BC. I agree that in a real OOA situation it is unlikely that you will be on a full breath of air. Theoretically, if we are sticking to recreational diving limits we should not be bent without a safety stop.


tomcat,

Thanks, exactly my point.

 

[tomcat]

The purchase of a Spare Air is the first huge step down the road of false security... once purchased it must be carried and its use defended...

Hey Uncle Pug,

For the record, I agree with 100% of what you say. However, things aren't always black and white. The discussion at hand is not about whether Spare Air generates a false sense of security or not. That would be a discussion of whether Spare Air should be purchased. I suspect that extreme bias may be prompting participants in this thread to not be able to look beyond the shortcomings of the device.

Let's put it this way:

With regards to regular recreational diving, most certification agencies that I am aware of, do not take into account the existence of alternative air sources, other than an octopus or a buddy. Procedures and knowledge imparted to the new diver, teach techniques that help the diver survive, without having to turn to devices such as Spare Air or ponies. Nevertheless, people do not always follow recommendations/instructions and **** happens (e.g. running out of air at 130 ft with no buddy).

I understand that your hypothesis is that carrying items such as Spare Air can cause people to be less likely to follow recommendations or instructions. We'll touch on that later.

Since recreational divers are only taught to rely on their octopus and buddy for alternative air, anything extra that the diver carries is a bonus. A pony is better than a Spare Air. Twin tanks better than a pony. Bringing your own submarine better than Twin tanks.

Some solutions are obviously more sensible and practical than others but who are we to cast judgement? Furthermore, every solution will generate some sense of security. This is not restricted to Spare Air. If a fool does not realise the limits of the security that a Spare Air can give, it is also reasonable to assume that the same fool will not recognise the limits of ponies, twin tanks and submarines. Therefore, people who are susceptible to getting a false sense of security from the equipment that they carry, are difficult to save from themselves in any case, regardless of the device they carry.

For example, this fool may breathe his tanks dry with the false sense of security that he can continue his ascent and safety stop using the pony, only to find that the pony was damaged during the dive and does not function. The problem is not with the equipment. It is with the fool.

This discussion is about the equipment. Let's leave the fool out for now.

tomcat

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by tomcat
This discussion is about the equipment. Let's leave the fool out for now.

The two are inseparable; one effects the other, so you have to look at the system. Solutions, especially solutions to emergency situations must be holistic. It doesn’t make sense to only look at little, tiny parts of the puzzle.

Any kind of method to handle an emergency must be a simple and as easy to implement as possible, since you may already be task-loaded to the hilt. You don’t want to add the last task that’ll break the camel’s back.

Speaking of Uncle Pug, to discuss the equipment only, let’s discuss jumping out of a plane with a towel. Let’s not discuss the fool, let’s discuss the equipment – terrycloth or synthetic?

Roak.

Ps. I get the Rix!

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by tomcat
Since recreational divers are only taught to rely on their octopus and buddy for alternative air, anything extra that the diver carries is a bonus.

Or a liability... crap dangling all over the place is not a bonus.... and the useless~in~an~emeregency~OOA~at~any~depth Spare Air is just one more chunk of worthless ballast to entangle you.... literally and mentally.

Some solutions are obviously more sensible and practical than others but who are we to cast judgement?

Lack of Discernment is the defining characteristic of the fool. Good judgement is the crown of the wise. I vote for wisdom.

This discussion is about the equipment. Let's leave the fool out for now.

Well if you prefer. Just what is the best way to use a towel when exiting a plane at 10K?

Am I guilty of being biased? I should hope so... having learned by experience about the Spare Air I would be a fool not to be biased.

 

[tomcat]

Hey Roakey,

I see your point. Although I disagree with you, there is probably no point expanding the discussion along that direction.

As for the parachute example, I think the analogy is not quite accurate. Spare Air is designed to provide air. Towels were designed to wipe things, not provide air resistance. Therefore, a better analogy might be, should I jump out of a plane using my reserve chute only.

Some may argue that Spare Air shouldn't be used with Scuba at all. Fair comment. But again, we're not having that discussion now. It works to some extent so how do we maximise it? If you don't know the answer, then try not to confuse the discussion with your biasness. Let's be honest with ourselves and not bend the argument too much to suit purposes.

Personally, I don't use a Spare Air and will never buy one (way too expensive for a paper weight). However, that doesn't prevent me from seeing that some other people may decide differently and are seeking help on how to make the best use of it. I think they should be allowed to come to their own conclusions about whether they want to continue using the device, after hearing about the maximum output that a Spare Air can provide.

Insisting that the device is dangerous without providing the facts on the max that it can do seems too big brother to me: "trust me, it's for your own good".

tomcat

 

[Uncle Pug]

We were both in the ring at the same time... I should have tagged out....

go Roak....

 

[tomcat]

Originally posted by Uncle Pug

Well if you prefer. Just what is the best way to use a towel when exiting a plane at 10K?

Heheh, the best way is to use it to cover your eyes so that you don't see the ground rushing up to meet you.

tomcat

p.s. Roakey, what's a "Rix"?

 

[roakey]

Originally posted by tomcat
p.s. Roakey, what's a "Rix"?

A compressor. I was alluding to Uncle Pug jumping out of an airplane with a towel, and I was putting dibs on his compressor when he splatted.

Though I don’t know if for sure he has a Rix, it’s certainly what he recommends.

Roak