I'm with RJP!! 
Tipping your DM
- Thread starter guppie9
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Tipping is an issue not restricted to diving. Some folks say, "I've paid for <fill in the blank; meal, dive trip, whatever> so why should I have to pay extra for what I've already paid for?" Other folks (myself included) say, "Wages are low in service industries and I do not want cheaper prices based on low pay for the workers, so I tip."
If I'm actually treated badly I will not tip, or return to the establishment. But I cannot remember when that's ever happened to me. I suppose there are places where it does, and then you are justified in not tipping, because they always say "Tipping is voluntary, in appreciation if you liked the service."
I dove for 8 days in Cozumel. The crew, including DMs, were friendly and helpful. They answered my questions. They set up my gear, which I could have done myself, but was still a nice service. When I was not there they cleaned the boat so it was comfortable and pleasant to ride on. My balance is not great, so add a moving boat and a full tank, and flippers on my feet, and I appreciated their willingness to help me from my seat to the transom. I'm not strong, so I appreciated that they lifted my gear out of the water at the end of each dive. They pointed stuff out to me, and the DM took pictures of me and of other stuff with my camera, and his pictures turned out much better than the ones I took, because he's a better photographer than I am.
In all, they did far more than the minimum requirement of their job, and they earned their tip. I have that kind of experience wherever I go. Diving, snorkeling, hiking in the mountains. On that boat, they shared tips equally. That was their decision, and I respect it. Besides, it made it easier for me.
In a perfect world everyone would get a fair wage and prices would reflect that. This is not a perfect world, so I tip for service.
If I'm actually treated badly I will not tip, or return to the establishment. But I cannot remember when that's ever happened to me. I suppose there are places where it does, and then you are justified in not tipping, because they always say "Tipping is voluntary, in appreciation if you liked the service."
I dove for 8 days in Cozumel. The crew, including DMs, were friendly and helpful. They answered my questions. They set up my gear, which I could have done myself, but was still a nice service. When I was not there they cleaned the boat so it was comfortable and pleasant to ride on. My balance is not great, so add a moving boat and a full tank, and flippers on my feet, and I appreciated their willingness to help me from my seat to the transom. I'm not strong, so I appreciated that they lifted my gear out of the water at the end of each dive. They pointed stuff out to me, and the DM took pictures of me and of other stuff with my camera, and his pictures turned out much better than the ones I took, because he's a better photographer than I am.
In all, they did far more than the minimum requirement of their job, and they earned their tip. I have that kind of experience wherever I go. Diving, snorkeling, hiking in the mountains. On that boat, they shared tips equally. That was their decision, and I respect it. Besides, it made it easier for me.
In a perfect world everyone would get a fair wage and prices would reflect that. This is not a perfect world, so I tip for service.
If you want an uncomfortable meeting, go on a Lammerlaw cruise around the Galapagos. I will only speak for our one particular trip, and that one particular guide/divemaster who probably doesn't even work on that boat anymore. But at the end of the cruise, he called a meeting and pretty much demanded how much we Americans should tip him and his wonderful crew mates. I won't go into detail about some of the canceled side trips, attitude, etc. Anyway, I went and found the guy who emptied our toilet paper bins everyday and slipped him a nice tip. He had a sheitty job and did it without complaint. I guess I just don't respond well to being strong-armed into handing over some baksheesh cuz I am a gringo to be milked... Otoh, if someone had gone out of his way for me, saved me, etc, obviously I would find him and tip him or give him a reacharound or whatever... ymmv. (don't bother flaming me, I have worked as a waiter and bartender for tips).
Tigerman
Contributor
I currently work in tourism myself, and lets just make one thing clear before going on to the tipping part of it.. Not all waiters/maids/whatever get paid horrible wages, that depends on where in the world you go.
As far as the tipping goes, if Im "forced" to pay a tip - forget it!
I tip for good service, I dont tip if the service is poor. On my recent dive trips I think its generally been 10-30 USD into the tip bucket on the boat or whoever collect it for the boat.
When i was in Mexico in 2007 I also had one day where I went to the cenotes and we "only" had one "deck hand" beyond the guides and was specifically asked to tip him directly if leaving any tip - which I did.
The boats ive been on its generally been split among the crew, from the tip bucket as far as Ive been told and I dont have any obvious reason to doubt it.
My "added question" to this thread would be "Do people generally also tip the dive op in addition?" I guess I should browse the tipping thread again for that one..
As far as the tipping goes, if Im "forced" to pay a tip - forget it!
I tip for good service, I dont tip if the service is poor. On my recent dive trips I think its generally been 10-30 USD into the tip bucket on the boat or whoever collect it for the boat.
When i was in Mexico in 2007 I also had one day where I went to the cenotes and we "only" had one "deck hand" beyond the guides and was specifically asked to tip him directly if leaving any tip - which I did.
The boats ive been on its generally been split among the crew, from the tip bucket as far as Ive been told and I dont have any obvious reason to doubt it.
My "added question" to this thread would be "Do people generally also tip the dive op in addition?" I guess I should browse the tipping thread again for that one..
NudeDiver
Contributor
First of all, although I am not a particularly cheap bastard, I will admit I that I hate the whole concept of "tipping" in all instances. As far as I am concerned, someone's wages are between them and their employer and employees should not be taking money directly from the customers. If servers want to make 15% (or whatever) more, then the damned restaurant should just increase its prices by 15% and give it to the servers. That would be FINE with me. If taxi drivers want more money, then just raise the prices. If boat crews want more money, then the prices should just be increased and the difference passed on to the boat crew. Again, fine with me! I'm not necessarily adverse to paying more money, I just want it built in.
Then there is the whole issue of WHO gets tips and who doesn't? Anyone who performs a service? A restaurant server? The bellboy? The maid? The door man? The paper boy? The garbage man? Where does it end? Should I tip the paramedic that performed CPR on me? That's quite the service ya know. I don't mind paying more, I just hate trying to figure it out. I just want the "more" built into the damned price! I HATE trying to figure out who gets a tip and how much should they get. It's excessively complicated and there is no good reason for it, considering employers can just raise the prices, pass it on to the employees, and make life much more simple for the consumer, without added expense. But nooooooo, we're stuck with the stupid crappy system that we have now.
I don't buy the "reward the for extra service" bit because these days, everyone has their hand out for a tip and it is expected. It's a given. If you don't tip, for any reason, then you're considered a cheap bastard. These days, you're supposed to tip the server practically no matter what. It has lost its purpose of a reward for extra special service. Now it's, "they don't make much hourly wage, they depend on tips, so you have to tip." So much for a reward for better service. It's a lot like the standing ovation. It's supposed to be for absolutely outrageously awesome performance. However, I don't think I have ever been to a performance at the local performing arts center where the people don't give a standing ovation. Everyone gets one!! So where is the significance? If every performer really that great?? Is there really no distinction? Hell, even my local video store has a tip jar on the counter for cryin' out loud!
There is also the fact that a tip system rewards employers for paying low wages. If they know that customers will pay employees directly, why should the employer bother paying them at all? Why would anyone want to purposefully reward this behavior? If everyone agreed to stop playing the tipping game, employers, after some disruption to the system, would be forced to pay their employees more. Sure, that would result in increased list prices for trips, but you're already paying anyway! The difference is you would be paying all up front, know exactly what you're paying, and could avoid all this foolishness with "how much should I tip?"
Last but not least - why is a tip so often based on the price of something, rather than a flat rate? So I bought a $100 meal instead of a $50 meal. Did the server really work twice as hard? Why should they get twice the tip (15% of 100 rather than 15% of 50), just because I ordered the expensive meal rather than the cheap one? What does the price of the meal possibly have to do with the level of service provided? Again - I don't get it.
Finally - if you don't tip enough, you look like a cheap bastard. If you tip too much, you look like a pompous *******. Sometimes, it seems like you just can't win - especially since the rules seem to change. It used to be that 15% was considered the standard for servers. Now it's usually considered 20%, even for basic service. When did that happen? And don't tell me it is because prices have gone up, but cause that 15% share goes up right along with the price of whatever the 15% is based on. On that note - non-Americans can get away just fine with tipping very little, or nothing at all - and people don't think anything of it. Why is that? Because these people have figured out the tipping game is BS, and that by getting the Americans to do all this generous tipping, everyone else can get their trips (or whatever) subsidized. This wouldn't happen if tipping were banned and the list prices people pay up front would be increased. You could catch all the non-tippers and bring some equality to the whole affair. Overall, it's all just ridiculous. In the meantime, maybe I should get my wife to book all our trips. No one would expect her to tip, given where she's from.
So there. With that said....recently someone mentioned to me that she tipped her SCUBA instructor. I was blown away. It never would have occurred to me that anyone would ever tip any teacher of anything under any circumstances. I was shocked. But hey, wanting to play the game and not be a cheap bastard, I figured I had better tip up you know? So, then I asked her how much does she tip? And she says, "well, whatever you think it's worth". Great. What the hell does that mean? So, I asked the same question a different way. Got the same answer. So then I said, "so, you're not going to help me out with this are you?" She says "nope". *** is that? Why does this whole tipping thing have to be some big complicated mystery? How does that possibly help ANYONE? I just don't get it.
So guys - help out a brother here. Assuming local, non-resort service - what do you tip for:
a). OW class
b). Advanced class
c). Rescue Diver class
d). Specialty class
Is it based on price, or number of hours of instruction, or days of instruction, number of OW dives involved, the position of the moon and stars, or what? Does it matter if you take the class locally or off in some destination while you're on vacation? Or do you tip instructors at all?
God I hate tipping. I just wish everything was built into the damned advertised price and you could be done with it. BY the same token, I think it should be completely illegal to advertise a price that does not include all taxes and fees - but that's a different issue
Cheers!
nd
seaducer
Contributor
I am sure I will get flamed for this, but I HATE the idea of tipping a DM.
I don't need their services. I don't want anybody touching my gear and I can manage to get in and out of the water myself. I generally stay away from the main group during those dives and am self reliant with my own buddy or pony bottle. I don't need their services. I don't take advantage of their services. And yet I am a bad guy if I don't throw a 20 at them after I paid 100+ to be on the boat to begin with. I ain't rich either.
Now I do tip, but I don't like it. That is for tropical dives.
For NE wreck diving I feel a little different. These dives are harder, and the DM has important work to do, namely making sure we are tied into the wreck well, and then at the end of the day he/she has to go down and pull the hook, which can be dangerous at times. They deserve something for their efforts. But to be honest I think tipping is still a bad idea. Just pay people what they are worth already. I would rather pay and extra 20 dollars on the trip, or an extra 1.50 on my burger, then have to leave more money later on anyway...
I don't need their services. I don't want anybody touching my gear and I can manage to get in and out of the water myself. I generally stay away from the main group during those dives and am self reliant with my own buddy or pony bottle. I don't need their services. I don't take advantage of their services. And yet I am a bad guy if I don't throw a 20 at them after I paid 100+ to be on the boat to begin with. I ain't rich either.
Now I do tip, but I don't like it. That is for tropical dives.
For NE wreck diving I feel a little different. These dives are harder, and the DM has important work to do, namely making sure we are tied into the wreck well, and then at the end of the day he/she has to go down and pull the hook, which can be dangerous at times. They deserve something for their efforts. But to be honest I think tipping is still a bad idea. Just pay people what they are worth already. I would rather pay and extra 20 dollars on the trip, or an extra 1.50 on my burger, then have to leave more money later on anyway...
If you get bad service, don't tip. Tipping is always voluntary. That said, I've never gotten bad service except very rarely at a restaurant.
I agree with the comments that workers should be paid a fair wage, to make the "standard" tip zero, and make tips truly a reward for outstanding service. For that reason I strongly support living wage legislation. But the reality of the job market is that very few people are in a position to bargain for wages. Most people in service industries need the job, and there are more workers than job openings, and they are stuck with whatever is offered. And the reality of service industries is that people are always looking for bargains. Witness the popularity of web sites that promise to find you the cheapest hotel room. We shouldn't have to tip just to assure a living wage, but we do. And until legislation forces employers to pay a living wage, this is not likely to change.
I think I tipped my OW instructor 15% of the price of the "class." (I was the only one in the class.) He was a fabulous instructor, infinitely patient with me. On the other hand, if a bellboy at a hotel insists on grabbing my suitcase when I say I can take it myself, he gets no tip. I didn't want his "service." If you don't want or need the DM's service, don't tip for that. You might still want to tip the boat crew if they're friendly and the boat is clean and well run. I know from talking to fellow travelers that I tip more than average. But I'm not afraid to tip less or not at all for sub-standard service, or services I made it clear I didn't want.
Percentage tipping is an area that does upset me. As a result I under-tip at a very expensive restaurant and I over-tip at a cheap restaurant. $5 is my absolute minimum for good service for a full meal. I'll tip 100% after a $5 meal. What's five bucks if the server was friendly and prompt?
Americans are known as good tippers. This makes me proud to be an American. I've also seen people getting poor service because they're from countries known for poor tipping. (Not specifically related to diving. I'm new at this. But I've traveled a lot and seen it in other contexts.) Maybe the reason I get such good service is that I'm recognized as being from a generous nation, and of an age recognized as tipping well.
It's a bad system. It should be changed. But it's not the fault of the employees.
I agree with the comments that workers should be paid a fair wage, to make the "standard" tip zero, and make tips truly a reward for outstanding service. For that reason I strongly support living wage legislation. But the reality of the job market is that very few people are in a position to bargain for wages. Most people in service industries need the job, and there are more workers than job openings, and they are stuck with whatever is offered. And the reality of service industries is that people are always looking for bargains. Witness the popularity of web sites that promise to find you the cheapest hotel room. We shouldn't have to tip just to assure a living wage, but we do. And until legislation forces employers to pay a living wage, this is not likely to change.
I think I tipped my OW instructor 15% of the price of the "class." (I was the only one in the class.) He was a fabulous instructor, infinitely patient with me. On the other hand, if a bellboy at a hotel insists on grabbing my suitcase when I say I can take it myself, he gets no tip. I didn't want his "service." If you don't want or need the DM's service, don't tip for that. You might still want to tip the boat crew if they're friendly and the boat is clean and well run. I know from talking to fellow travelers that I tip more than average. But I'm not afraid to tip less or not at all for sub-standard service, or services I made it clear I didn't want.
Percentage tipping is an area that does upset me. As a result I under-tip at a very expensive restaurant and I over-tip at a cheap restaurant. $5 is my absolute minimum for good service for a full meal. I'll tip 100% after a $5 meal. What's five bucks if the server was friendly and prompt?
Americans are known as good tippers. This makes me proud to be an American. I've also seen people getting poor service because they're from countries known for poor tipping. (Not specifically related to diving. I'm new at this. But I've traveled a lot and seen it in other contexts.) Maybe the reason I get such good service is that I'm recognized as being from a generous nation, and of an age recognized as tipping well.
It's a bad system. It should be changed. But it's not the fault of the employees.
Drew; I dive in the NE and know where you are coming from..but..the tropical DM does more than guide the tourist.They are there if anyone has a problem in the water.They load up the boat with tanks before departure and clean boat after trip.They give you a briefing and an idea what awaits you below.They dive with the least experienced people on the boat so that you don't have to.Do you dive with a camera? They are happy to hand your camera to you after you enter water,they have a soak tub just for camera gear filled with fresh water on the boat.Need a drink of fresh water on the boat? How do you think it got there? Does the boat have a head? Who do you think has to clean it at the end of the day?
A tropical DM/instr day does not start and end around the boat trip.I know how long the day can be for I was one...
I personally do not need their help but for all they do indirectly to make my day easier/fun they get a tip.
Where are you diving? In Mexico or the Bahamas, there are a lot of dive hands that take the bus to the boat and go home to the most humble dwelling. If they provide useful and friendly service, they get a good tip.
Often in Florida, the dive master is a guy or gal with a good first income that got into it for a hobby. Live near the boat? Be a dive master and dive free! I feel less compelled to tip a Mercedes owner who claims to "dive for drinking money".
One man always gets the tip. Ham at Jupiter Dive is a retired teacher and often presents a lesson on the marine life we expect to see on that trip. He even has a little blackboard. He has inspired my kid to learn and investigate the ocean. A guy like that is solid gold.
Thanks, Ham.
Often in Florida, the dive master is a guy or gal with a good first income that got into it for a hobby. Live near the boat? Be a dive master and dive free! I feel less compelled to tip a Mercedes owner who claims to "dive for drinking money".
One man always gets the tip. Ham at Jupiter Dive is a retired teacher and often presents a lesson on the marine life we expect to see on that trip. He even has a little blackboard. He has inspired my kid to learn and investigate the ocean. A guy like that is solid gold.
Thanks, Ham.
Similar threads
