Tipping your instructor

[Lone Wolf]

The difference is that most people don't feel the need to tip a doctor or lawyer - allowing them and/or their employers to keep wages high. In other fields, people do feel the need to tip - allowing their employers to keep their wages low, under the theory that "maybe the customers will make it up themselves."

That is one difference, not the only one.

I do to. I continue to do business with them in the future.

That would reward the owner of the business, it would not reward the employ providing the extra service. Also, it would in no way prompt the owner to reward the employ for exemplary service. I am very quick to point out poor service, and as quick to reward good service, I believe this is best done with a tip for good service, and complaint for poor service.

 

[NudeDiver]

No, quite the contrary. But that is the basis for this discussion, rather than whether a dive instructor is "a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs," which, I think, we can all agree on.

No, I don't agree. I don't think being a dive instructor is " occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs". I certainly don't know anyone who is conducting classes and approving certifications for free. Everyone I know doing it does so in exchange for a fee.

 

[NudeDiver]

That would reward the owner of the business, it would not reward the employ providing the extra service. Also, it would in no way prompt the owner to reward the employ for exemplary service.

How do you know? Maybe the establishment has a profit sharing plan, or bonuses for good reviews and happy customers, or whatever.

 

[caseybird]

The problem would be easily solved, if consumers didn't allow it to go on.

If tipping just STOPPED, the following would happen:
"

Oh please, join the real world. Tipping, like religion, music and a million other things is an aspect of human nature, societal expectations and norms. Some cultures tip, some don't. If you live in a non-tipping culture, don't tip. If you travel to a part of the world where tipping for service is standard, understand that before you go and make up your mind to tip appropriately. If you travel to a tipping culture like Mexico, don't plan on reforming the economy based on your withholding a lousy 5 dollar tip to the divemaster. IT WON'T HAPPEN. Nor will it impress the locals with your command of economic theory. It will only annoy someone who is trying to support his family.
If you don't want to tip, stay on the GBR or use your own boat or compressor or whatever. Simple.

 

[Lone Wolf]

How do you know? Maybe the establishment has a profit sharing plan, or bonuses for good reviews and happy customers, or whatever.

The particular group I have experience with, the divemasters that work on
atlantic dive boats, and monterrey bay dive boats, those that I have dove on, do not get paid. There sole compensation is 1 dive per trip and whatever tips that the customers leave. They are not required to do more than set the anchor and offer general assistance. If they do more than is required by their employer, I reward them personally. If we were required to pay charter rates that would allow the charter companies to pay the dm's and offer profit sharing , I belive the cost would be more than most were willing to pay. A 5% tip to a dm for good service on trip is minimal, and I can choose which dm if any gets a tip. In this manner I am not required to compensate those that give poor service, just those that do. I feel this saves me money in the long run.

 

[firstdive2005]

Ya pretty sure tipping is here to stay. I know which industry is a tipping related industry and which isnt. Seems to me it's usually related to some vise I have. Or the broad entertainment industry at large. I tip when deserved, so much power in one man, can I stand it. I'm right up there with GWB. I wonder when outlawing haggling over prices is gonna be shot at as another capalist swine invention. How whinny some people get blows me away. But on the other hand opinions are always valid in our society. So whine away, I'm gonna tip.

 

[Thalassamania]

I can't speak for others, I don't pretend to be in the same situation. All I can say is that if I had a student offer me a tip, I'd feel insulted.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Who gets tipped? Who does not? Why? Why not?

Is it a matter of making up for a low wage? Then why not tip the guy at the fast food register?

Is it a matter of reward for good service? Aren't they supposed to give you good service anyway? If you don't give them a tip, is it OK for them to provide bad service?

I agree, it is very arbitrary. And I personally don't like it. I think it depends on the type of person you are, and it's not a cheap vs not cheap like some want to claim. It's a matter of people liking things to be very structured or liking to make decisions on the go. I like things structured: I plan everything far in advance. I do not like things like haggling (I want people to advertise the actual price they are willing to sell and I'll pick the best) or tipping (even when I tip due to social standards or when I know the employees are paid low because of tips, such as at a restaurant, I tend to give a fixed percentage rather than base it on service.)

That would reward the owner of the business, it would not reward the employ providing the extra service. Also, it would in no way prompt the owner to reward the employ for exemplary service. I am very quick to point out poor service, and as quick to reward good service, I believe this is best done with a tip for good service, and complaint for poor service.

The problem is that nowadays tipping in most cases is just an extra fee. It has little to nothing to do with service. I was reading an article on what to tip, and even poor service is supposed to get a tip of 10%. Percentages are generally fixed and employees are payed based on the fact that they are getting tips.

Tipping in itself isn't a bad thing: give someone something extra for doing an awesome job. Unfortunately, it has now become required and an excuse for businesses to pay their employees less.

I can't speak for others, I don't pretend to be in the same situation. All I can say is that if I had a student offer me a tip, I'd feel insulted.

Interesting. I might feel a bit akward, but why insulted?




Or is it merely a convention of society? Oh...wait...which society? Why is it that (from my understanding) the dive people in Cozumel expect big tips from Americans, and little to no tips from Europeans? Is it because Americans are awesome and Europeans are all pricks? Or is it because Americans have been socialized to do so, while Europeans have not (or have, to a much lesser extent)? If we accept it as a societal convention - then that makes it OK for Euros to not tip and people don't think anything of it - but if an American does not tip - well, he's just a cheap bastard. But in either case - it seems like it doesn't have anything to do with the service or activity - merely the arbitrary conventions of a society - and the tippers are subsidizing the activities of the non-tippers, keeping wages (and prices) artificially low.

Time to eliminate the tip system, regardless of industry. Pay people what they are worth. Charge what you need to charge to make a suitable profit. Stop expecting people to voluntarily give you their money, under the guise of some nebulous reward system.[/QUOTE]

 

[Thalassamania]

... Interesting. I might feel a bit akward, but why insulted?
...

Perhaps it's because I was raised, in part, by my very socially conscious Victorian Great Grandparents. A tip carries with it a social class and position connotation, at least as I was raised. A student (being lower on the totem pole) would never tip a teacher and regardless of their actual economic situations a teacher would never accept. As they say, "Its just not done."

 

[vladimir]

No, I don't agree. I don't think being a dive instructor is " occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs". I certainly don't know anyone who is conducting classes and approving certifications for free. Everyone I know doing it does so in exchange for a fee.

A valid point--perhaps your first in this discussion--but still not relevant to the question of whether instructors should be tipped or not.

Interesting. I might feel a bit akward, but why insulted?

Perhaps because tipping has traditionally been reserved for the most menial workers, and is inherently condescending. I am usually a generous tipper, but I am often uncomfortable with the practice for the same reason.