Tissue stress associated with bubble formation; potential benefits of diving enriched air

[tarponchik]

In that case, I'd recommend that you read up on the science. You could start with a pretty good review: Venous gas embolism as a predictive tool for improving CNS decompression safety
.

I'd recommend you read discussion again (though it looks like you haven't read it at all, only the latest post, just like @boulderjohn). Then, I'd recommend you read up the science and learn what stress is. To give you a hint, stress is our body's response to some unfavorable external conditions. Therefore, bubbles are not a sign of stress. They may cause stress, however, this has not been demonstrated. So until you prove that our body is stressed by the bubbles, and this stress can be measured (i e, in levels of released hormones, catecholamines etc) I object to the use of the term "stress" in relation of N2 bubbles formation.

 

[tursiops]

Did you just make this up or are you just repeating what you read on Scubaboard? How exactly does "poor washout" cause you to feel bad?
I've been nitrox certified for many years and have yet to see any difference. A slow ascent following a relaxing dive makes me feel pretty good no matter what gas I breathe.

I'll ignore your snark. Go do your own research.
You are lucky. Many of us are quite tired after air dives, but not after Nitro dives.

 

[tarponchik]

Did you just make this up or are you just repeating what you read on Scubaboard? How exactly does "poor washout" cause you to feel bad?
I've been nitrox certified for many years and have yet to see any difference. A slow ascent following a relaxing dive makes me feel pretty good no matter what gas I breathe.

I agree 100%. I did air dives, deco dives, NITROX 32 and 36 dives, 20 ft dives, 185 ft dives, and it always felt good. Tired sometimes, maybe, but otherwise no difference.

 

[DustyC]

I'll ignore your snark. Go do your own research.
You are lucky. Many of us are quite tired after air dives, but not after Nitro dives.

Yep. And despite what many people insist, when something is true for me, that's all I need. It's happened in many aspects of my life. From diet and health, to diving nitrox. I'm in Bonaire right now hammering out dives on 32% so fast that my computer is telling me to chill out, and I feel great. I can't do that on air. I feel like crap after a few dives on air, never mind day after day of multiple dives a day.

 

[RyanT]

@tarponchik, I understand quite well what stress is. I have a Ph.D in biology and I am a professor of Human Anatomy & Physiology, so I have a decent handle on what tissue stress is. To make a claim that bubbles and/or inert nitrogen off-gassing is not a tissue stress is simply silly. Would you agree that DCS is tissue stress? If so, then what you suggest is that either inert nitrogen off gassing is a binary effect. Either DCS symptoms cause stress or lack of DCS symptoms cause no stress. So somehow between the absence of DCS symptoms and full blown DCS, there is no gradient of tissue stress? If you understand something about physiology, then you know that there really is no such thing as a binary effect on tissues. Physiological stresses are continuous, ranging from mild to severe effects.

 

[tarponchik]

@tarponchik, I understand quite well what stress is. I have a Ph.D in biology and I am a professor of Human Anatomy & Physiology, so I have a decent handle on what tissue stress is. To make a claim that bubbles and/or inert nitrogen off-gassing is not a tissue stress is simply silly. Would you agree that DCS is tissue stress? If so, then what you suggest is that either inert nitrogen off gassing is a binary effect. Either DCS symptoms cause stress or lack of DCS symptoms cause no stress. So somehow between the absence of DCS symptoms and full blown DCS, there is no gradient of tissue stress? If you understand something about physiology, then you know that there really is no such thing as a binary effect on tissues. Physiological stresses are continuous, ranging from mild to severe effects.

Pardon me, Professor, but this is utter nonsense. Bubbles are formed not by physiological or psychological process but by physics described by Henry's law. Thus, bubble formation by itself is not our body's reaction to something and can not be classified as stress.

As for tissue stress in particular, though the concept is still too vague to my taste, it is based entirely on tissue damage. Since bubble formation is reversible, you need to demonstrate that it did, indeed, damage the tissue before you even start talking about "tissue stress". Until you show me the dead cells or any other evidence of such damage, this is all pseudo science.

 

[RyanT]

Bubbles are formed not by physiological or psychological process but by physics described by Henry's law. Thus, bubble formation by itself is not our body's reaction to something and can not be classified as stress.

Likewise, lacerations are caused by physical processes impacting tissues, and laceration damage is reversible. So that's not tissue stress? Again, just silly.

 

[tursiops]

Likewise, lacerations are caused by physical processes impacting tissues, and laceration damage is reversible. So that's not tissue stress? Again, just silly.

Give it up. tarponchik prefers his own reality and definitions.

 

[gfaith]

@tarponchik when you dive deep and stay long. Why exactly do you ascend slowly? What are you trying to avoid? Do you want to off gas safely or perhaps create bubbles that can not come out fast enough? This is the cause of decompression illness or the bends. Bubble On..

 

[tarponchik]

Likewise, lacerations are caused by physical processes impacting tissues, and laceration damage is reversible. So that's not tissue stress? Again, just silly.

You made a false statement, then you bring a bad analogy as a proof, and connect the two by using the word "again". Nice try.

Look, I do not need your analogies or metaphors or anecdotes or the list of your degrees. Just give me the proof that reversible bubble formation causes tissue damage. No proof? End of story.