Two brothers die in Lehi (Utah?)

[EliteDetail]

im a pretty daring person and ill do almost anything but dive in a 9' siphon tube... I DONT THINK SO! you couldnt pay me enough to do what those guys were attempting. Its sad to hear what happen to some fellow divers but they put themselves into a extremely dangerous situation far beyound recreational diving.

 

[cstreu1026]

I know they probably didn't have many rational thoughts in their heads when things went wrong, but if it were me I would think Inflate my bc find the top of the pipe, and then locate a corner and feel your way out. Of course I haven't seen the siphon and surely wouldn't want to attempt to dive.

Having never been in a cave ot anything else similar if you inflate your bc, say in a 9 ft concrete pipe that is horizontal would you rise to the top of the pipe?

 

[BigJetDriver]

cstreu1026 once bubbled...
I know they probably didn't have many rational thoughts in their heads when things went wrong, but if it were me I would think Inflate my bc find the top of the pipe, and then locate a corner and feel your way out. Of course I haven't seen the siphon and surely wouldn't want to attempt to dive.

Having never been in a cave ot anything else similar if you inflate your bc, say in a 9 ft concrete pipe that is horizontal would you rise to the top of the pipe?

Yes, you are correct. You would rise to the "top", or inner concave portion of the pipe. You might find yourself pinned up against the surface from too much inflation as well.

Even if you then figured out that "out" was in two directions from that point, you might be turned around, and, under such extreme mental pressure you might select the long way out.

While an analysis of the known facts is in order, we should always keep in mind that it is extremely easy to "Monday Morning Quarterback". It is entirely another matter to know for certain what each of us will really do when we "See the Elephant"!=-)

 

[BigJetDriver]

pipedope once bubbled...
Inside a pipe it is VERY EASY to get LOST. Remember, there is NO light. The pipe is 9 feet in diameter so you can actually swim across it. What often happens is that you travel in a spiral and do far more distance than needed. It is also easy to stop to check something and then start swimming back the way you came.

Working in these things we have a real nice guide in that little thing called the umbilical. The other handy uses for it are a nearly endless supply of gas and a comm link to the support people on the surface.

I find that any pipe bigger than 48" requires attention to track my location in the pipe and my direction of travel.

With the small amount of gas and the lack of a guideline, they were in major trouble as soon as they reached the point where they could not see the light of the entrance. That might have been only a few feet if even that far.

Pipedope has made an important point here! I have been in few of them for various reasons, but he does this for a living! This may well have been part of the problem!:wacko:

 

[pipedope]

Is that anyone with the training and experience to survive in one of these things is not going in there on SCUBA unless there is some major reason that it is needed.

BTW
Yes, if you put some air in your BC you would float to the top of the tube. Now, if you didn't put in too much you can turn over so that you are on all fours on the top of the pipe. Then you crawl.
The problem here is that first you need to think of this, then crawling is slower than swimming and uses more air. How long does an AL80 last a new diver in 100' of water?

Remember too that it is rare for these things to be clean. Usually there are things like cars, trees and other strange things down in the bottom.

 

[Charlie99]

like happened in 1997 Washington state incident..

In that case 2 recreational guys went into a siphon to clear out cars, and both they and 2 rescuers died.

I'll leave those nasty inverted siphons to Pipedope.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Charlie99 once bubbled...
like happened in 1997 Washington state incident..

In that case 2 recreational guys went into a siphon to clear out cars, and both they and 2 rescuers died.

Interesting that you brought this one up, Charlie. We use this incident, as well as certain others, in our Public Safety Diver course curriculum for IANTD.

In the case you mention, the recovery team did not do a proper risk / benefit analysis. In the most recent one, they obviously did, and as a result, no one else was put at risk!