VIPs on Scuba Cylinders/Divers Den/Baltimore, MD

[Sevenrider860]

I am curious as to how well the liability insurance of another shop protects the shop filling the cylinder. A VIP simply states that on the day of the inspection the cylinder met industry standards. Once the cylinder left the shop, there is no way to know what has happened after the inspection. If a cylinder with an inspection from Shop A goes "boom" 11 months after the inspection...

A) How much liability does shop A truly have
B) How much can shop B actually collect?

Just curious...

 

[Wookie]

I am curious as to how well the liability insurance of another shop protects the shop filling the cylinder. A VIP simply states that on the day of the inspection the cylinder met industry standards. Once the cylinder left the shop, there is no way to know what has happened after the inspection. If a cylinder with an inspection from Shop A goes "boom" 11 months after the inspection...

A) How much liability does shop A truly have
B) How much can shop B actually collect?

Just curious...

Depends on who has the shadiest lawyer....

 

[manni-yunk]

deleted post - after thought....I dont want to be involved in this thread!!!!!

 

[offthewall1]

Your point is well made.

This is a simpler way of saying what I said. No one is liable. Just because the tank passed on Monday - that will never guarantee it will pass on Tuesday. There are just to many possibilities once the tank leaves the hands of the person who VIPS it.

I don't think Chaz's real concern here is who is liable anyway - I think he is trying to protect himself and his employees.

My point is - his new policy doesn't achieve that goal at all. The only ways to achieve that goal when it comes to filling tanks would either be to not fill tanks at all or to fill them in one of those containment chambers so that if they do blow... the entire event is contained within.

I am curious as to how well the liability insurance of another shop protects the shop filling the cylinder. A VIP simply states that on the day of the inspection the cylinder met industry standards. Once the cylinder left the shop, there is no way to know what has happened after the inspection. If a cylinder with an inspection from Shop A goes "boom" 11 months after the inspection...

A) How much liability does shop A truly have
B) How much can shop B actually collect?

Just curious...

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Chaz is a smart business man if he incentivizes his clients to come to him for VIPS and fills. Lets say, buy a bunk 25 fill card at 50% off regular fill price and get free vip from him. Or buy $750 of merchandize and get X number free fills and a VIP or something like that.

If he chooses to do the opposite, then people vote with their feet. Its not rocket science. People take the path of least resistance....

The reason people VIP their own is because the financial incentive is huge to do so. Have 5 tanks VIPed in one year, and you paid the price of the class. Works for me.

The PSI class is around 289.00. TDI a little less. Who the heck is charging that to vis 5 tanks? I get 5 tanks done for $35.00. But problem is I now own 17 tanks counting my stages. And that gets expensive and is why I am getting my inspector cert this fall and will fill the stickers out properly, keep the required paperwork as well as my own. I tend to go overboard on documentation. All the shops in my area know me and how I perform gear service and will fill my tanks. As will the places I choose to dive that have fill stations.

And yeah, the liablilty thing? BS as other have said. A vis is good for one fill. The one that was done at the time of the vis. After that no one can claim to be safe. Drop the tank, let it get empty and then transfill it, etc.. There are no guarantees for a shop or fill station unless they have total physical control of the tank at all times.

 

[webedivin2000]

I could debate all the points and counter points about VIP!!! However I have concluded that rather than make this a huge continuous debate and thread I am going to do what I know is right and safe for myself and my employees!!! In commercial diving we have a saying "If in doubt bailout"!!!!
This is my final post and comment, If a consumer does not have enough respect for my position, they are worried about a $8.00vip inspection that could make the difference in hurting anyone operating Ina fill station either In a store,boat or maybe your home garage then visit another shop!!! I am not going to risk my safety for anyone!!!!
I deal regularly with professional people in this industry, commercial company's with 40 divers, public safety, military etc, etc, one consumer is not going to change my thinking of 42 years in this industry!!
Good Diving!!!!

 

[TravisD]

Chaz, do you have a list of acceptable VIP's that have been pre-approved by you guys? I can't say how likely it would be for me to head out there for fills, but it's possible, and it would be good to know if my usual shop's stickers are good enough or not.

Thanks!

-Travis

 

[offthewall1]

Perhaps everyone that VIP's tanks should provide a copy of their liability insurance via a web database so that shops can look it up prior to filling a customer's tank? This would be relatively easy to set up... but I question exactly which liability policy specifically covers the VIP program. I suspect a policy would have to be very specifically worded. Does a Scuba Instructors professional liability policy cover tank vips? Does a dive shop's general liability policy cover vip's? Does a commercial dive company's General Liability cover vips? Who can produce a "liability" policy that specifically states what is and isn't covered when it comes to visual inspections?

Since annual visual inspections are not required by law... would any policy truly cover them? This is a legal question I can not answer. Scuba tanks are only required by law to be visually inspected at the time of hydro testing - every five years.

Furthermore, there is no current legal requirement that a person conducting "annual scuba tank inspections" have any type of certification. Should there be a law requiring this?

If a professional or generally liability policy has a specific clause in it to cover vip's, can someone please post the wording here for all to see... and if so, can we not as an industry work to create a database of properly insured facilities who provide vip service?