Want BCD that gives me same buoyancy at any pitch angle

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My first wing as a 100 pound OMS Bungeed Wing of Death. I had a spreader plate out of aluminum to keep it from tacoing, To this day, it's one of the most stable platforms I ever dove. Why so big? It was given to me. I made what I had work until I had something better. I even punctured it and didn't die. Hard to believe given all the hysteria over that possibility, and I wasn't even in a balanced unit.

Once you understand the physics and the hydrodynamics, you can dive just about anything and make it work. I don't like Poodle jackets, but I can be in trim and neutral in one. Just throwing gear at a problem won't solve it until you understand it fully. Dive what's comfortable for you and develop your understanding and skills to work with that. That doesn't mean gear can't make a difference, but the diver makes a much bigger difference. I dive a hybrid, the Express Tech. I like it.
 
I suspect you're trying to use equipment so solve a skills problem.

Ok, so I have good neutral buoyancy and excellent trim just "hanging in the water" with fins down. When I invert myself, I get extreme positive buoyancy. (of course its worse in shallower water)
Based on this description, I'd say that one or more of the following are happening ...

- you're not as neutrally buoyant as you think you are, and using subtle fin motion to maintain position in the water column
- you're changing depth as you re-orient yourself in the water
- you're inadvertently changing your breathing pattern (aka, "inflating your internal BCD") when inverting

Any, or any combination, of the above will change your buoyancy state under the circumstances you describe.

My guess is that it is the design of the Genesis Recon BCD. When I hang, the air is at the top the bladder. The top of the bladder is wound tightly with several shock cords, so the bladder can only displace a certain amount of water.

When I invert, the air goes to the bottom of the bladder. There are no shock cords there. The air can expand much more at the same depth because there are no shock cords compressing the air. So now more water is displaced, and I get (huge) positive buoyancy.
My guess is that it's less the design of the BCD than it is the choice of this particular gear for single-tank diving. That's a HUGE air cell, and the larger the air cell the more effort you have to put into managing the bubble. This is especially true if you're carrying more weight than you actually need, as that will require a larger bubble in the cell to maintain a neutral state. The term you want to search for is "dynamic instability".

Your explanation, however, isn't accurate ... as has been pointed out several times already ... unless in the process of inverting you're also decreasing the depth, and therefore pressure, on the air in the cell. The bubble will maintain the exact same pressure as the surrounding water ... and while it will likely change shape, it will not displace any more water at a given depth regardless of the shape of the wing. Displacement is a function of pressure, and at a given depth the pressure remains the same regardless of the shape of the bubble.

Good to have a dump on the bottom...but why not design the bcd so you get the same buoyancy at all attitudes?
... all BCDs are designed to give you the same buoyancy at any attitude, given the air cell is maintained at the same depth ...

Inverting is an extreme example..even tilting a bit lets some air into the floppy part of the bladder and I find myself compensating.
That's called "taco'ing", and has to do with trapping air in parts of the cell that do not allow it to travel to the dump valve. It's not surprising you're having that problem, given the size and design of the air cell.

Is there a BCD Make/Model that gives you the same buoyancy at all attitudes? Now that the Recon is 11 years old, I am looking around....

It didn't take long for the usual "get a BP/wing" response ... and while it's a valid response (I prefer them, personally) it's not the only "best" answer. That would be "get an appropriately sized air cell for the job you're expecting it to do". For single-tank diving, 75-lbs of lift isn't just unnecessary, it makes managing the air cell far more difficult than it needs to be.

My answer would be ...

1. Decide what style of BCD best suits your diving style and preference ... back-inflate or jacket. Consider the features you want. If pockets are important to you, make sure that you can access them wearing the exposure gear you will usually be wearing (not all of them are easy to get into the pockets while wearing gloves, for example). If weight integration is important, choose a BCD that allows you the ability to use the weight you'll need for your usual diving conditions.
2. Go try on several ... think fit and function. Proper fit is, by far, the most important consideration ... it should fit snugly enough to not ride up on you when it's inflated on the surface. A BCD with a crotch strap will generally provide better stability than one without. Also, a BCD with double tank bands will generally hold your tank more snugly in place than one with a single tank band.
3. If you have access to a pool and the ability to try out one or more different models, try before you buy.
4. If it's for single-tank diving, limit your considerations to BCDs with 40 or less pounds of lift. Even 40 pounds is more than you'll need under most circumstances, unless you're diving very large cylinders and cold water exposure gear.

None of this stuff will solve the problem you describe ... only better technique will do that. But a properly sized, properly fitting, BCD will make it easier to develop that technique to a degree that the problem you've described will cease to be a problem.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Once you understand the physics and the hydrodynamics, you can dive just about anything and make it work.

Bingo.
 
No such animal.

It's all about resistance.

Think about it.

Safe dives . . . . . .
. . . safer ascents !

the K
 
I suspect the root cause of all this is that when the OP is upside down, the location of the air bubble in his BCD is shallower (and thus under less pressure and expands more) than when he is right side up....if his head stays at the same depth. The huge BCD just compounds the issue.
 
Just chiming in as a "new" diver from my personal experience of doing things like that in the water...

as NetDoc and TSandM said... it's really all in the breathing... for me when i inverted i realized i was going up as well.

1. The slight change in depth of the BC after inverting should not allow the air to increase that much to give you such positive buoyancy (otherwise you would always have to be venting/adding air to bc constantly during a dive to be neutral).

2. for me just going upside down changed my breathing (whether it's the regulator issue that NetDoc described or just being excited i don't know).

At the end of it to solve the problem i went inverted a few times while monitoring my depth and i adjusted my breathing to suit until i was still... so it's all in the breathing
 
Thanks for your kind words!

I agree with the first part, but not the second. The search for the absolutely smallest BC is a fool's errand and can lead to not having enough lift when you need it most. No matter how big your bladder, you can still get your Scuba unit balanced to the point so you don't need much air in it. You might get some tacoing if the wing is really over sized, but there are ways to compensate for that, including bungees. The danger of bondage wings lie mostly in a few people's overactive imagination and not in reality. :D

It's all about the breathing, ain't it? Throwing gear at a training issue, even if it's the revered BP&Wing, is frustrating when it doesn't work out. FWIW, keeping the COG is easier if there's not much of a bubble shift. The closer you are to zero air in your BC and even your drysuit will enable that. The first is easy but doing that to the second is counter productive. Air=warmth.

I find that when I'm "hanging" upside down for whatever reason or laying on my back it's much harder to get a smooth breath of air from the regulator - why is that ? I'm sure it has something to do with pressure
regulator is a abyss 22

Thanks for any insight
 
I find that when I'm "hanging" upside down for whatever reason or laying on my back it's much harder to get a smooth breath of air from the regulator - why is that ? I'm sure it has something to do with pressure
regulator is a abyss 22

Thanks for any insight
That's all it is: pressure differentials. The regulator gives air at the ambient pressure it's at. Prone, your chest is a couple of inches shallower. Supine, the chest is a couple of inches deeper. Most regs have a work of breathing around an inch. In other words, that four inch swing is huge when it comes to breathing.
 
I find that when I'm "hanging" upside down for whatever reason or laying on my back it's much harder to get a smooth breath of air from the regulator - why is that ? I'm sure it has something to do with pressure
regulator is a abyss 22

Thanks for any insight

All regulators, regardless of what you have been told or what you think MUST behave in accordance with the laws of physics demonstrated in the following graphic be they double hose, single hose, be they Hog, ScubaPro, Aqua Lung or forged in the fires of an alien star by ET:

single_vs_double_hose.jpg


With a double hose the ambient diaphragm is in the regulator housing on the back between the shoulder blades, on a single hose regulator the ambient diaphragm is located in the second stage housing near the mouth. Note the position relative to the center of the lungs. Then we can add into the mix cracking effort and Venturi assist, but always the graphic MUST be true.

N
 
Funny. I have never noticed a difference in the way my reg breaths in any position, at any rec depth. The 1st stage is an unbalanced piston and the 2nd stage is a Hollis 500SE. Inhale and exhale are both easy in any position. Maybe the difference is so small that it's hard to notice.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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