Weighted STA vs. V-POUCH vs. CAM BAND weight pouches

[RJP]

Im speaking about ditching a few pounds at depth (for whatever reason if needed). I was trained to never ditch your weight belt unless you are at the surface.

What's the "for whatever reason if needed" that would cause you to need to "ditch a few pounds" at depth?

Your instructor sounds like he may have been lazy in doing your weighting (at worst) by slugging it all on your belt or (at best) he/she simply wasn't being clear about a few different pieces of advice:

• There are very few situations requiring ditching weight at depth.
• If you do need to ditch weight at depth, you don't need to ditch much to establish buoyancy (assuming you were properly weighted) in the first place
• Ditch your weight at the surface if you need to establish positive buoyancy
• If you carry a lot of weight, don't put it all on your weight belt (or any one place) because if you lose it at depth you could be in trouble

So it's sort of easy to see how all of those things might be jumbled up and read as also conveying "only ditch your weight belt at the surface" and/or "never ditch your weight belt at depth."

 

[Bigd2722]

A.)
B.) A weighted STA is much easier to deal with when swapping tanks

Don't know anything about STA. Why is weighted easier to deal with?

 

[tbone1004]

it is easier than the cam band pockets when you are swapping tanks because the cam bands are still light enough to sit out. With weight pockets on them they tend to sag and make it somewhat more difficult to move up and down on the bottles. Can be overcome, but not having them is certainly easier.

I prefer to put an STA on each tank and use something like the DSS thumb wheels and swap the whole rig over. I find it much easier on a boat than using the cam bands.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

If you are diving with a full 7mm suit and hood and boots and gloves etc. And you are diving below 70 or 100 feet... then you will have a lot of suit compression. A LOT. Some people will say it is so much as to be dangerous and should be avoided, but that is NOT the issue here.

I've worn a full 7 mm suit without any excess lead (maybe 26 lbs) and when arriving at 80 feet having to inflate my BC to completely full and burping out the OP valves, just to be close to neutral. I think the BC was rated to 26 or 35 lbs of lift, but in practice, it may have less lift than rated.

In any regard, if you are diving deep with a 2 piece 7 mm suit and you have a BC failure, you will be heavy.. Very heavy, heavier than you can probably kick up, unless you are quite strong and have good fins (and a lot of air).

So, when I read that the OP wants 4-6 lbs to ditch.. that makes no sense to me. I have found that a 12 or 14 lb belt is quite comfortable and I know that if I ditched it, I could swim up. For, me.. with a full 7 mm and deep water, I want some lead to ditch on the bottom - enough to allow me to SWIM to the surface before I die.

It is amazing to me that new divers are being taught to never ditch lead at depth.. That is ridiculous. If you need to ditch it, ditch it. If you are diving recreational profiles, you should have very little danger making a direct ascent.

Plus, if you actually ever experimented with this stuff you would find out that dropping that much lead would probably still keep you neutral or heavy until you get within maybe 40 feet of the surface... Then you might want to flare out, spread eagle and make sure you exhale as you get near the surface.

 

[RJP]

Don't know anything about STA. Why is weighted easier to deal with?

In answer to OP's original question, a Weighted STA is easier than cam-band weight pouches... not vs "non-weighted" STA.

Cam-band weight pouches require about 3.5 hands to swap your tanks, because the weights pull/twist the bands in various directions. The STA (with or without weight) is mounted to the plate, so is not in the way.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

When swapping tanks and using a single tank rig equipped with cam band weight pockets.....I have the new tank standing upright, next to the assembled rig w/ old tank.

I just loosen the cam bands, slide the rig up, off of the old tank and slide it down onto the new tank, and tighten the cam bands.

This method works well for me, and takes only a few seconds.

Perhaps the webbing being stiffer on some brands of cam bands than others, might be a factor.
But I believe we are using the same brand of BP/W.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[Yoyoguy]

What's the "for whatever reason if needed" that would cause you to need to "ditch a few pounds" at depth?

Your instructor sounds like he may have been lazy in doing your weighting (at worst) by slugging it all on your belt or (at best) he/she simply wasn't being clear about a few different pieces of advice:

• There are very few situations requiring ditching weight at depth.
• If you do need to ditch weight at depth, you don't need to ditch much to establish buoyancy (assuming you were properly weighted) in the first place
• Ditch your weight at the surface if you need to establish positive buoyancy
• If you carry a lot of weight, don't put it all on your weight belt (or any one place) because if you lose it at depth you could be in trouble

So it's sort of easy to see how all of those things might be jumbled up and read as also conveying "only ditch your weight belt at the surface" and/or "never ditch your weight belt at depth."

If you read a couple posts below another member states how compression greatly decreases the boyancy of a 7mm wetsuit...especially at 100ft. This is my concern. Should I have a total wing failure at that depth...it would be really difficult swimming up my rig. I was told dropping 6lbs may not even be enough more like 10 would help. On regular recreational dives it should not be an issue having an uncontrolled ascent as long as you breath out to prevent lung rupture. Yes this is still dangerous but I'd think one would rather have to deal with a decompression chamber over drowning.

 

[RJP]

If you read a couple posts below another member states how compression greatly decreases the boyancy of a 7mm wetsuit...especially at 100ft. This is my concern. Should I have a total wing failure at that depth...it would be really difficult swimming up my rig. I was told dropping 6lbs may not even be enough more like 10 would help. On regular recreational dives it should not be an issue having an uncontrolled ascent as long as you breath out to prevent lung rupture. Yes this is still dangerous but I'd think one would rather have to deal with a decompression chamber over drowning.

Proper weighting and bouyancy devices will help you avoid both.

If you have enough balast that you worry you can't swim it up... look into redundant buoyancy. Thick wetsuits and heavy rigs are a recipe for trouble.

 

[tbone1004]

"really difficult swimming up my rig"

Read the Fundamentals of DIR Diving or whatever it is called by JJ and note the balanced rig section. This is the dangers of diving that deep in a thick wetsuit. A swimmer can carry a 10lb diving brick without fins. You can swim up 15lbs with fins *well probably not the split fins, but any actual fins* and get to a point where the compression relaxes.

Embolism is infinitely worse than DCS and almost always fatal, you can't CESA from 100ft easily unless you are a very comfortable free diver. As soon as you go to take that next breath you risk embolism. If you are diving to 100ft regularly with a 7mm for safety you really need to consider a drysuit. If not, ditchable weight should never exceed the weight of the gas in your tank at the start of the dive in my opinion. With singles that is between 6-10lbs depending on the tank.

 

[Yoyoguy]

"really difficult swimming up my rig"

Read the Fundamentals of DIR Diving or whatever it is called by JJ and note the balanced rig section. This is the dangers of diving that deep in a thick wetsuit. A swimmer can carry a 10lb diving brick without fins. You can swim up 15lbs with fins *well probably not the split fins, but any actual fins* and get to a point where the compression relaxes.

Embolism is infinitely worse than DCS and almost always fatal, you can't CESA from 100ft easily unless you are a very comfortable free diver. As soon as you go to take that next breath you risk embolism. If you are diving to 100ft regularly with a 7mm for safety you really need to consider a drysuit. If not, ditchable weight should never exceed the weight of the gas in your tank at the start of the dive in my opinion. With singles that is between 6-10lbs depending on the tank.

very interesting. hmm...that is definitely scary situation because I dive regularly to 60+ ft with a handful to 100. I would love a dry suit but dang are they expensive. I am saving up for a steel tank and dry suit but was not looking to buy them for 1-2 more years. The drysuits ive been looking to save up to are more the techy stronger style so cost from 2000-3000 dollars. VERY costly. Maybe I shouldn't be diving so deep in cold water...