Wes Skiles death - July 21, 2010
- Thread starter BlueWaterDiving
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Scott L
Contributor
I don't believe n2diving posted the same information here. Whether it's correct or not is another matter...
Scott L
Contributor
You are wearing that term out tonight. By comment was nothing of the sort. Was pointing in the direction of further discussion which was not covered as well here. I know only what I am reading in the two forums...
Gill Envy
Contributor
Wes's work is stunning and he will be missed! Please post any information about the dive if you know details. If you can not confirm information as fact, please state it as speculation and please be respectful of this great man as we make yet another feeble attempt to understand why this sort of thing is happening with such frequency on rebreathers.
-on the "don't speculate" debate, I can say this: each fatality is an alarm bell that should be allowed to ring, loud and clear, such that the person has not died in vein. We would be remiss to not discuss possible causes and promote better practices with each tidbit that comes out about a case. From what I have seen in the 5 years that I've been involved in the rebreather world, we will all have very little to talk about if we restrict our discussions about fatalities to what is known, because sadly, little is ever released about the vast majority of fatalities. Remarkably, "waiting to discuss a case till more is known" rarely leads to meaningful discussion. In fact, I would turn this whole thing on its head and say that not speculating is irresponsible for us CCR divers, the stakes are just too high, with far too many of us dying on a regular basis. Let us speculate, soul search and question, but let us do so in that context, knowing that we will probably never be able to conclude the cause in the majority of rebreather deaths and doing so respectfully of the deceased, knowing that speculating is an exercise in accident prevention mainly and is not meant to reflect personally on those we have lost.
I think there are some things that can be said without being disrespectful of Wes or overly speculative, things that could be helpful to my diving techniques now, even if it turns out later that they are not relevant to this particular case:
-the diver was amongst the most experienced in technical diving and perished on a remarkably mundane dive.
my take home: an amazing number of very experienced eCCR divers have perished doing "easy" dives. recognizing that confidence and experience may actually increase the risk that a mistake or gear malfunction will go unnoticed, I am reminding myself once again that my risk of fatal mistake likely increases with experience, particularly on "easy dives", and that I need to resist the temptation to let my guard down as I become more comfortable with the sport.
-Another CCR diver has perished.
my take home: This sport is inherently dangerous, no "and" "if'" or "butt" about it! I am no less likely to make a mistake than anyone else. regardless of my experience level or kit configuration, I am not special, I'm not lucky and I must continue to hone my skills, diving with a cross checking mentality, taking 110% responsibility for my well being, continuously alert to signs I have erred and signs of a malfunction of my computers and kit.
-This diver appears to have died on a solo portion of a dive.
my take home: regardless of actual cause of fatality in this case, solo diving rebreathers appears to be associated with an exceptionally high risk of mortality. I take this very seriously and if I choose to dive solo anyway, I do so understanding and accepting the risk and taking extra precautions to help mitigate those risks.
-the families of many divers do not make public the facts as they become known about fatal CCR accidents.
My take home: I have told my friends and family that to the extent possible, that any information should be released about any details if I am involved in a fatal accident. I am not worried about my diving philosophy or style being scrutinized if I have a fatal accident, I can only hope that some good could come of it. I recommend that every CCR diver has such a frank discussion with their friends and family so that more information becomes available for everyone to learn.
Much of the above can be applied to diving Open Circuit to help each diver reduce risk, though I do think it's fair to say that OC divers seem to be having better success at diving within their respective limits.
Please dive safely!
George
-on the "don't speculate" debate, I can say this: each fatality is an alarm bell that should be allowed to ring, loud and clear, such that the person has not died in vein. We would be remiss to not discuss possible causes and promote better practices with each tidbit that comes out about a case. From what I have seen in the 5 years that I've been involved in the rebreather world, we will all have very little to talk about if we restrict our discussions about fatalities to what is known, because sadly, little is ever released about the vast majority of fatalities. Remarkably, "waiting to discuss a case till more is known" rarely leads to meaningful discussion. In fact, I would turn this whole thing on its head and say that not speculating is irresponsible for us CCR divers, the stakes are just too high, with far too many of us dying on a regular basis. Let us speculate, soul search and question, but let us do so in that context, knowing that we will probably never be able to conclude the cause in the majority of rebreather deaths and doing so respectfully of the deceased, knowing that speculating is an exercise in accident prevention mainly and is not meant to reflect personally on those we have lost.
I think there are some things that can be said without being disrespectful of Wes or overly speculative, things that could be helpful to my diving techniques now, even if it turns out later that they are not relevant to this particular case:
-the diver was amongst the most experienced in technical diving and perished on a remarkably mundane dive.
my take home: an amazing number of very experienced eCCR divers have perished doing "easy" dives. recognizing that confidence and experience may actually increase the risk that a mistake or gear malfunction will go unnoticed, I am reminding myself once again that my risk of fatal mistake likely increases with experience, particularly on "easy dives", and that I need to resist the temptation to let my guard down as I become more comfortable with the sport.
-Another CCR diver has perished.
my take home: This sport is inherently dangerous, no "and" "if'" or "butt" about it! I am no less likely to make a mistake than anyone else. regardless of my experience level or kit configuration, I am not special, I'm not lucky and I must continue to hone my skills, diving with a cross checking mentality, taking 110% responsibility for my well being, continuously alert to signs I have erred and signs of a malfunction of my computers and kit.
-This diver appears to have died on a solo portion of a dive.
my take home: regardless of actual cause of fatality in this case, solo diving rebreathers appears to be associated with an exceptionally high risk of mortality. I take this very seriously and if I choose to dive solo anyway, I do so understanding and accepting the risk and taking extra precautions to help mitigate those risks.
-the families of many divers do not make public the facts as they become known about fatal CCR accidents.
My take home: I have told my friends and family that to the extent possible, that any information should be released about any details if I am involved in a fatal accident. I am not worried about my diving philosophy or style being scrutinized if I have a fatal accident, I can only hope that some good could come of it. I recommend that every CCR diver has such a frank discussion with their friends and family so that more information becomes available for everyone to learn.
Much of the above can be applied to diving Open Circuit to help each diver reduce risk, though I do think it's fair to say that OC divers seem to be having better success at diving within their respective limits.
Please dive safely!
George
Scott L
Contributor
John, reading back, you are correct. I had not formerly read the equipment references here on SB. I had no intention of becoming involved in this thread but was simply trying to guide a member to any additional information posted elsewhere. My apologies!
Last edited:
flots am
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OC is just much harder to screw up.
If the gas in the tank is OK on the surface, it's OK until it's all gone. Re-breathers just don't have that level of certainty, which is why I won't dive one.
flots.
For those of you who have questions about CCR's there were some pretty good spin off discussions on them during previous accident threads.
One such thread is located here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/rebreather-diving/311125-ccr-truths-misconceptions.html
The inclusion of the above link is for informational purposes only. It is in no way meant to imply that Wes suffered a rebreather related accident. To the best of my knowledge no determinations as to the cause of the accident have been made yet.
One such thread is located here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/rebreather-diving/311125-ccr-truths-misconceptions.html
The inclusion of the above link is for informational purposes only. It is in no way meant to imply that Wes suffered a rebreather related accident. To the best of my knowledge no determinations as to the cause of the accident have been made yet.
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