West Palm Beach Fatality 59 yo male diver

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The disconnected inflator hose makes me wonder what the diver masters were doing while the divers were preparing. If they weren't diving, shouldn't they assist in making sure the divers are ready to enter the water? Air turned on etc? I'm surprised how no one noticed a dangling hose.

Remind me not to be your dive buddy. It's that attitude that the dive master is supposed to be checking your equipment and making sure that you are ready for a dive, and protecting you during that dive that makes people bad dive buddies. You and your buddy are supposed to check your equipment, not the dive master.

In any case, it doesn't sound like the hose was disconnected when he started the dive. It sounds like either his hose accidentally came disconnected, and he dumped lead to recover, or he lost some lead, and thinking he was having trouble with his inflator, disconnected the inflator hose. However, neither scenario explains how he ended up dead in 75 ft of water with 2400 psi of air left in his tank.
 
DD,

You make a lot of great points. And you are absolutely correct that no one knows what happened in this case. I'm not sure I agree with giving divers the option to leave the group without a flag to venture off to surface later with a sausage. I think the vessel should be tracking all the divers all the time whether a DM is in the water or not.

"Divers go missing all the time" is a less than comforting thought for any operation, recreational or commercial. If a diver(s)wish to venture off from the group, he (or she) should be carrying a flag. This should be made clear in a predive briefing. There are just too many divers out there without appropriate (lawful) SMB's. I see it all the time, divers surface no where near their op without a flag.

As far as aborting dives, on my boat, if someone can't clear there ears or needs to surface prematurely, the make it known to the person carrying the flag they are okay and going up, then proceed of the flag line. Top to bottom vis almost always allows the divers to see one another, and when the diver going up has surfaced and knows the boat has seen them, a couple of tugs on the flag and we are both on our way.

I didn't mean to intimate the "no comment" reply inferred guilt. It just never looks or sounds good, especially when it's "on the record." Some kind of statement is appropriate. I know it is a very difficult time for Capt. and crew, but it would put the op in a better light, even without going in to any detail.

I'm going to wait for the report to come out and see what the facts determine. Perhaps some good will come from it.
 
DD,

You make a lot of great points. And you are absolutely correct that no one knows what happened in this case. I'm not sure I agree with giving divers the option to leave the group without a flag to venture off to surface later with a sausage..
Why? That is how all Palm beach operators that I have dove with work. If I had to absolutely stick with the DM and flag I would not dive with that operator. If I happen to find something interesting, I just stop and look. When I am done, if the DM is out of view, I continue my dive and use my SMB once I'm ready to surface.

I think the vessel should be tracking all the divers all the time whether a DM is in the water or not.

They do, to the best of their abilities, but dive groups separate all the time.


"Divers go missing all the time" is a less than comforting thought for any operation, recreational or commercial. If a diver(s)wish to venture off from the group, he (or she) should be carrying a flag. This should be made clear in a predive briefing. There are just too many divers out there without appropriate (lawful) SMB's. I see it all the time, divers surface no where near their op without a flag.

That is the responsibility of the divers. I want to be seen and not run over, therefore I learn how to deploy an SMB and carry a good size one. Moreover, my fully inflated SMB is larger than most diveflags that the DMs carry.
 
Why? That is how all Palm beach operators that I have dove with work. If I had to absolutely stick with the DM and flag I would not dive with that operator. If I happen to find something interesting, I just stop and look. When I am done, if the DM is out of view, I continue my dive and use my SMB once I'm ready to surface.

Why? because not only is it an unsafe practice, and it is against the law. If you want to venture off, you should have a flag.

As a boater, I can tell you it is frightening to be cruising at 40 mph to see a diver surface with no flag all to close with his op 3/4 of a mile away.
 
A few of the standard practices in Palm Beach Diving:
  • one or two DM or dive guides in the water, each with a flag/float, each with a group. The Guide or DM is a value added aspect of the dive trip--staying with the guide is done for the assistance on finding or staying on the best parts of the reef. The DM or guide IS NOT there as a babysitter or as a safety measure for diver errors/problems. That is what buddies are for, gerar checks by buddies, etc. If the DM or guide sees a problem, they would help like any other member of any other buddy team. Typically in Palm Beach, a photographer or slower paced diver or 2 in a group, will decide to stay longer than the guide and group want to, at a specific creature encounter or structure. As the drift current is pulling the guide, they will be moving on sooner or later, with the current. If a diver or buddy team chooses to stop and leave the group, that is 100% their right. Most boats do a check to make sure that each person has an smb themself before entering the water. Also...since 99% of the Palm Beach reefs run paralell to the current, the boats know pretty well where all the divers are, within 100 yards or so, even when some leave the flag....there is a drift zone which all but someone determined to swim to shore will be found in ( this happened about 6 months ago--most thought the diver purposely began swimming to shore from minute one...and he succeeed :)/
  • Equipment checks are done on the surface, by buddy teams, not by DM or guides. In Palm Beach, most of us would be pissed if a DM even touched the valve on our scuba tank. Palm Beach does have nice spots for new divers, but it has a very large population of very advanced recreational divers, that would not stand for being "checked" by a DM.
  • On a day when the drift current is flowing fairly well, the "norm" is to empty your BC or wing of air prior to jumping in the water. I myself, actually suck the air out of my wing entirely, to be as negative as possible on entry. The proceedure then, is wait just until your buddy is clear of the bubbles on entry, and eye to eye contact is saying GO..and both buddies begin a vertical swim downward at a comfortable pace, to assist the negative drop. Divers with sinus chellenges need to do a modified version of this....and often try to follow the line down towed by another buddy team or guide. At the bottom, you get dead neutral, close to bottom, check on your buddy and group if applicable, then begin dive.
  • Many boats have regulars that DO NOT WANT a DM or guide, ever. In these boats, sop is either each buddy team tows their own float flag( common practice), or, each buddy team will be planning on sending up an smb, and each team has strict guidelines on where on the reef they are headed--and NOT to swim the opposite direction of the rest of the teams upcurrent. This tends to be more buddy team or group dependent.
  • The Palm Beach charter boats are usually knowing exactly where most divers are at all times, even those without a float, due to the structure of the reef, and the speed of the current--it makes very predictable zones of diver movement within an hour.
  • Divers in a group that get low on air early, sometimes signal the guide, but SHOULD SIGNAL THEIR BUDDY that they are going up early. It is not the guide's reponsibility in any event, but it is a buddy responsibility. Whatever the buddies had agreed on prior to the dive, should be followed at this point. The diver at the 10 foot safety stop, is expected/mandated to send up an smb prior to surfacing--it helps prevent being run over by any boat in the area--and lets the charter boat know if they need to force off some private boat headed to close to a diver on a stop :)
  • The boat goes to each diver or group and picks them up.

Regarding the issue of the inflator hose, you often see people that had an inflator begin leaking air into the bc during a dive, disconnect it so that they don't get so positive that they are pulled to the surface. Being able to orally inflate a BC or wing is an incredibly basic skill....Back in the early days, all BC inflation was oral :)

As to proceedures if you lose your buddy....this is agreed on by the buddy teams. It does not involve the DM or guide, unless a buddy frantically goes over to a dm or guide, and indicates lost buddy and the need for help. Since there are many buddy teams with poor adhesion during a long dive, this creating the "same ocean buddy" expression, there are often buddies getting separated. This is a training agency issue, regarding behaviors of each diver, and peripherol awareness. Where it involves a photographer or videographer, the real issue is that with the focus and attention required by the photograpaher for their subject, they really can't be a real buddy....they "can" be in a 3 man buddy team, as a "dependent" buddy.

If a diver is new or low skilled, and gets on a charter boat in Palm Beach, and wants special assistance on the dive, then they must hire a DM or and Instructor for this. Easy to do, but they have to ask.
And again, a MAJORITY of regular Palm Beach Divers would be pissed if their gear or they were checked out by a dive guide prior to getting in the water. Many of us, have vastly greater experience than any DM or instructor on most boats, and when I say many of us, I am talking about the large number of 10 to 20 year diving veterans that are always out on Palm Beach boats.

---------- Post Merged at 11:12 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:56 AM ----------

Why? because not only is it an unsafe practice, and it is against the law. If you want to venture off, you should have a flag.

As a boater, I can tell you it is frightening to be cruising at 40 mph to see a diver surface with no flag all to close with his op 3/4 of a mile away.

I used to have a 34 foot Regal commodore......rigged for diving :)
One thing I noticed, when cruising at 25mph to 30 mph, was that with any wave size much over 1 foot, flags appear out of no-where, and a "typical boater" going this speed will not see a flag in time.
One thing we pay dive charter boats for, is to be patrolling overhead...they patrol the zone we are in--they know that from the main group flag, and estimations of max and min for any diver leaving the group..The dive boat is sporting a huge dive flag, easy for any boat to see at great distance, and the dive boat will intersect the path of any oncoming boats headed for the area of reef the divers are on.
This works incredibly well.....I have been diving Palm Beach Charter boats since the late 70's, and have NEVER had even the slightest problem with OTHER BOATERS , thanks to the work of the dive boat....When I have dived off of beaches, towing a flag, you may be legal, technically, but you know you are a moron as you are doing it, because boats don't see or don't respect the dive flag. It is almost pointless, without a charter boat to enforce it.

Towing a 18 foot bright yellow Kayak or surf ski, with a tall dive flag works great....I don't know if most of the speed boats see or care about the dive flag, but most boaters don't want $2000 or more damage to their props and drives that running over a big kayak would cause--so they veer off :)
 
And let's remember, often the dive guide is not even a DM. I get a kick out of all the recent threads discussing DM's: particularly the Coz ones. There is a difference IMO between hired DM's and group guides.

My favorite op, has no requirement for divers to stay with the guide, particularly when hunting. Most every dive my buddy, I or somebody near me will shoot a sausage before we ascend. If I'm near by, I do try to advise the guide that I'm splitting but that is not often the case.

There is at least one local op I know of that offers no DM, no guide, no in water flags etc. divers are on their own until they surface under their Smb's.

Ive never used pura Vida so I don't know their protocols.

Edit: well, I see Dan beat me to it.

Your lack of expereince with local charter diving is causing you to see discrepancies that are not there. From what i understand (from third hand account) the diver was found a considerable distance east from the drop location. So we assume he swam there, neither the current nor wind on the surface could have placed him there.

You assumption that everyone inflates the BC and floats on the surface waiting so that everyone descends as a group is not the way it is done on many charters, however i don't know anything about this boat or their SOP.

The disconnected inflator hose could be associated with him leaving it unconnected before the dive .. either accidentally or deliberately... Also, it could have been connected and functioning when he entered and then at depth, it began to bleed air into the BC, so he diliberately disconnected it. I've done many dives with the power inflator not hooked up (if there was an issue on the boat) and I've had to disconnect the inflator hose at depth because of an inflating leak issue several times...it just is not a big deal... The disconnected hose is a clue, but it does NOT make me want to point a finger at the boat operator, DM's or the diver himself.

You seem to believe that the DM in a large group counts every diver following his float and will abort a dive if someone is missing. That is not the way I worked when I was a DM. The customers were to follow ME, I pull the float, I am burdened, I know where to go and it is their job to follow me. If a DM aborted the entire dive every time some clown couldn't clear their ears or felt weird and went up early or sucked their air down too fast.... the diving would be terrible.. everyone would be pissed. It is follow the leader and I am the leader.

So,,, in general, a customer is supposed to dive with his buddy and they are supposed to stay with the dive guide who has the float. If they fail to do that, then they are to ascend soon after or it is assumed that they want to explore a little on their own and they will be ascending some time later with their own SMB in the general vicinity where the DM has the main group. Again the DM doesn't abort the dive when one of his 11 divers is momentarily out of his visual.....I am NOT saying this is how this boat operation is run, but that is how I used to operate. From what I understand, his son was on the boat, so it is reasonable to suspect that he was buddied with his son. I am sure the investigators have talked with the son.

Now if someone is really new and wants a lot of help, then we would buddy them up with the DM and then they would get direct supervision but this was NOT SOP.

Since it is not unusual for groups to get "spread out", there is no way for the operator or DM to know he was missing until a roll call was taken and he is over due. Then they began a search and it took a long time I presume, because he must have swam east insead of north along the reef, which was the typical dive in that area... it is a straight (meandering) run in a northerly direction on an inside (west) break.

Plus, divers go missing ALL THE TIME and 99.99% of the time it is because they didn't stay with the DM and they drifted off and the diver is found floating on the surface some time later..so when the guy was over due, they would first assume he got away from them and begin looking for him on the surface. After maybe 30-45 minutes of searching, maybe THEN you begin to search underwater.. but in all honesty the rush is over, by this time it is a body search not a rescue. In other words, it is important to find the lost diver floating on the surface and get him safely into the boat and no longer subject to getting run over by a careless boater than to assume that this time the diver is on the bottom somewhere in a location where he can be saved. The considerable delay in recovery of the body sounds plausible to me...

I am hesitant to say what I think happened in this case, because we don't know.. but it sounds like the diver was separated from the group, swam east, while the group was swimmng north with the current and he may have had an equipment or a health issue...

In any regard, there are a lot of unanswered questions, but I don't see anything that makes me suspect that the operator was doing anything wrong.

And .... of course the operators aren't going to say crap to a news reporter.. they are upset and ANYTHING they say could be misinterpreted. Failure to make a statement is indicative of being professional NOT culpable.
 
There is at least one local op I know of that offers no DM, no guide, no in water flags etc. divers are on their own until they surface under SMB's

that sounds like how it is here in the Great Lakes and the St Lawrence River.
 
that sounds like how it is here in the Great Lakes and the St Lawrence River.

Pretty much . . .


  • Stay within 100' of the dive boat or bring a dive flag.
  • Don't run out of air
  • Don't lose your buddy
  • Be back before it's time to leave

flots.
 
The disconnected inflator hose makes me wonder what the diver masters were doing while the divers were preparing. If they weren't diving, shouldn't they assist in making sure the divers are ready to enter .

I think we may be blurring the line again between DM and Dive Guide.
I know lots of local dive guides who are not DM's, and lots of local DM's who are not guides.

Many of the waivers I have signed said "This is only a boat ride".
There are also local ops that are more "nurturing" to divers new to the area. The Scuba Club of Palm Beach that I often recommend. (morning dives.). Boynton dives south too tend to be a little more benign, like Broward, Dade and lots of Keys dives. Boynton Wrecks however can be a challenge, but they have lots of places to hide from the current as well as an up line.

Palm Beach and North, protocols begin to change. Including more current as well as larger animals. In addition to the usual suspects like sharks, turtles, eagle and Manta Rays there were 2 sawfish recently, a whale shark and a sperm whale not too long ago.

---------- Post Merged at 07:31 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:30 PM ----------

Pretty much . . .


  • Stay within 100' of the dive boat or bring a dive flag.
  • Don't run out of air
  • Don't lose your buddy
  • Be back before it's time to leave

flots.
300 ft in the ocean as well as the Lakes AFIK.

Gas management skills and buddy skills are a given.

Funny, people have bitched here when ops ask for a time certain to surface.

It's not all about the greedy dive op wanting to load another trip. Lol
 
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