What do folks make of this one...

[Ken Kurtis]

with all due respect i don't think you understand what they are talking about.

With equal deference, I don't think YOU understand the specifics of this dive. The wreck in question is 190' deep. I'm not so sure a bounce dive down to that depth, let alone a second one to unhook the line, qualified as "easy squeezy" let alone a good idea.

Also, the bottom there is sand. Pretty hard to cause anchor damage to sand.

- Ken

 

[RJP]

So I'm certainly no wreck diving expert, but to me it seems that if you are reliant on the temporary anchor line for your ascent, then each diver should carry a line long enough to tie to the wreck and ascend on. That way, if you lose the anchor line, blow a bag from the bottom, tie to the wreck, and ascend on that.

That's exactly why I carry a reel with 400ft of line with me.

---------- Post added May 28th, 2013 at 08:18 PM ----------

We don't use Jersey Uplines in California as was suggested, because with proper training and experience you don't need them here.
Jerry

I don't care where "here" is, so please explain how "proper training and experience" help you when you get back to the anchor line... and it's gone?

I don't carry a Jersey Upline - and have plenty of training and experience - but I do carry a 400ft reel that's useful for navigating the wreck, shooting a bag, etc. PLUS if I get back to the anchor line, and it's gone, I have the proper training, experience, and equipment to avoid doing a drifting free-ascent in a shipping lane. So while the "properly trained and experienced" California divers are drifting away to god-knows-where hoping someone finds them (or blowing off deco and heading to the surface) I'll be completing my obligation and surfacing somewhere above the wreck waiting for someone to come back and get me.

 

[Hetland]

With equal deference, I don't think YOU understand the specifics of this dive. The wreck in question is 190' deep. I'm not so sure a bounce dive down to that depth, let alone a second one to unhook the line, qualified as "easy squeezy" let alone a good idea.

Also, the bottom there is sand. Pretty hard to cause anchor damage to sand.

Something tells me the captain didn't have out a minimum 3:1 scope (570ft in this case), and, assuming he had anchored up-current of the wreck, there would certainly be an opportunity to damage the wreck with the anchor or chain. All that aside, a direct tie-in is an order of magnitude safer than telling the first dive team to put an anchor in the sand, which in my experience, almost never results in a proper set, and couldn't result in a proper set without adequate scope. I'm sure you could find a dive team willing to trade a free trip for a decent tie-in, but even a shot line is preferable to divers mucking with the anchor at the beginning of a technical dive.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

That's exactly why I carry a reel with 400ft of line with me.

---------- Post added May 28th, 2013 at 08:18 PM ----------



I don't care where "here" is, so please explain how "proper training and experience" help you when you get back to the anchor line... and it's gone?

I don't carry a Jersey Upline - and have plenty of training and experience - but I do carry a 400ft reel that's useful for navigating the wreck, shooting a bag, etc. PLUS if I get back to the anchor line, and it's gone, I have the proper training, experience, and equipment to avoid doing a drifting free-ascent in a shipping lane. So when the "properly trained and experienced" California divers are drifting away to god-knows-where, either someone finds them, or blowing off deco and heading to the surface, I'll complete my obligation and be directly above the wreck waiting for someone to come get me.

I would like to hear about what gear and techniques you use to allow yourself to complete deco and maintain position above the wreck. I am particularly curious to learn the depths and current speeds that are compatible with your technique and "where" (if ever) your methods become impractical.

 

[rlynch]

the thing that struck be from post 1 - was unhooking the anchor from the wreck....why? We Tie the thing into the wreck (5 tine hook) and then do the dive. Last team or the mate pulls the anchor. Tying in can be dicey and more so on unhooking and doing deco on the line. you need a bit of experience to do it.

So the whole thing is totally avoidable.

Also if you find a nice anchor and no boat (or no anchor) shoot your bag on a Reel and Tie that into the wreck... from the wreck.
That way you ascent on the line from a known position. I use a 400' reel when diving mostly b/c we have currents that shift constantly. 120 fsw could use 250' of line to get to the surface. Last option is to shoot a bag and do a drifting ascent.


Also carry 2 bags - i have a 3' in my pocket and a 6' in my backplate. (and an extra 150' spool too).

we're normally between 2 and 25 miles off shore (and usually only one boat on a wreck) close to the Gulf stream so a drifting ascent can scatter people miles on a normal - short deco (~15-20 minutes) run.

Adding: my wreck reel is 400' of #24 but i'm going to move up to #36 ~ 300' of line. We also carry Jon line's too (about 6' of 1" webbing with 2 bolt snaps) you can clip into the ascent line, not unless needed of course. Our current range from 1-2 to way above and shift in the water column. Waves range from 0-4 (reasonable frequency) for start of dive to sporty at the end. Currents are the same.

 

[tracydr]

And finally, nobody should take sucking on everybody's O2 bottle, followed by some ibuprofen, as an appropriate approach to a Type I DCS event. The oxygen was appropriate. The ibuprofen probably didn't hurt anything, but taking pain medication to mask a DCS hit is NOT adequate or advisable treatment. It is quite possible for the symptoms to worsen when the med wears off (or just as time goes by). In addition, failing to treat an event like this MIGHT be a setup for development of osteonecrosis in the affected joint.

Fully agree, this very well could be a setup for osteonecrosis. Not something you want to experience, especially in an elbow.
some hyperbaric doctors prefer patients to be NPO, nothing by mouth. I guess they don't like getting puke all over their chamber.

 

[RJP]

I would like to hear about what gear and techniques you use to allow yourself to complete deco and maintain position above the wreck. I am particularly curious to learn the depths and current speeds that are compatible with your technique and "where" (if ever) your methods become impractical.

Gear = Halcyon Pathfinder Reel with 400ft of heavy line and Halcyon 6ft "Super Big" closed-circuit SMB, finger-spool with 150ft of heavy line, 80lb closed-circuit lift-bag, slate or wetnotes.

Technique is pretty simple:

If you can't get back to upline (or get back to upline, and it's gone) shoot the 6ft SMB to the surface, tie it in to the wreck, ascend on the line doing scheduled stops along the way. If you can, put a note on the bag to let the surface know what the deal is.

Of course, the most obvious complicating factor would be how much current is running, and related would be how deep is the tie point to the the surface. If there's a ton of current, and you're deep this set-up isn't really ideal. But if you have NO other up-line available, it's better than a free ascent drifting the whole way. I'd ascend as far as I could and complete as much obligation while tied in as I could. If - and this is unlikely - I'm so deep that the SMB doesn't get to the surface and/or I'm flapping in the breeze so far down-current that I couldn't make stops the rest of the way on the line tied into the wreck... I'd shoot a bag and do the rest of my time adrift. I guess with 400ft of line, there is a current speed at which the SMB and/or I couldn't reach the surface "on the the line" but I would think that would be a pretty ripping current. As has been mentioned above with a 3:1 scope ratio, 400ft of line covers me pretty well.

I suppose there's always a risk that the current could be so strong that the line would break. But I inspect/replace my line as needed to minimize that risk. Plus, at some point, if the current were that strong, I would have the good sense to thumb the dive from the outset, cut the dive short to minimize or limit deco obligation, not stray far from the anchor line, or both. The deepest dives I tend to do are in the 150ft range here off NJ, so 400ft of line should be OK. I've only had to employ this approach once, from 130ft, and there wasn't much current at the time. It was uneventful, other than needing to go untie my line (and retrieve a bag of scallops) during my second dive. I've seen a few other divers need to do this as well. All were uneventful proceedings.

 

[MalibuJerry]

This is interesting. There are many things one can do without having to use multiple gas switches and extensive dive planning for decompression. One though, which you might already have, is the use of scooters. They are extensively used by tech divers.

---------- Post added May 28th, 2013 at 08:41 PM ----------

That's exactly why I carry a reel with 400ft of line with me.

---------- Post added May 28th, 2013 at 08:18 PM ----------



I don't care where "here" is, so please explain how "proper training and experience" help you when you get back to the anchor line... and it's gone?

I don't carry a Jersey Upline - and have plenty of training and experience - but I do carry a 400ft reel that's useful for navigating the wreck, shooting a bag, etc. PLUS if I get back to the anchor line, and it's gone, I have the proper training, experience, and equipment to avoid doing a drifting free-ascent in a shipping lane. So when the "properly trained and experienced" California divers are drifting away to god-knows-where, either someone finds them, or blowing off deco and heading to the surface, I'll complete my obligation and be directly above the wreck waiting for someone to come get me.

you just explained it -- because we don't have wicked currents here, a standard reel will do just fine. I don't know of any properly trained tech divers who do not carry one. If there were a wicked current, something a bit more beefy like a Jersey Upline might be appropriate. And mon cheri, I did not say these were properly trained and experienced California tech divers. Quite the contrary, they acted like poorly trained newbies. (BTW some training agencies teach not to blow the bag until you are at 70'. I don't subscribe to that, but that is what they teach). No one properly trained and experienced would blow off deco once they are on the bag because they would know that their little head bobbing on the surface wouldn't attract anyone on a boat.

 

[mathauck0814]

Did I miss something? I thought the OP made reference to 120' depth - which would not be the U-88 and it would not be common to shot line a wreck in that depth. Anchoring is fine. As is ascending on a reel with a marker. As are any of the other normal contingencies for a "techreational" dive. Sorry if I missed the part where we knew definitively we were talking about the sub, but I didn't gather that from the description.

 

[MalibuJerry]

Did I miss something? I thought the OP made reference to 120' depth - which would not be the U-88 and it would not be common to shot line a wreck in that depth. Anchoring is fine. As is ascending on a reel with a marker. As are any of the other normal contingencies for a "techreational" dive. Sorry if I missed the part where we knew definitively we were talking about the sub, but I didn't gather that from the description.

Ken said it was the UB-88 which is 190'. If it is the ACE 1 then it is 135'. The right way to dive the UB-88 is to drop a shot line and live boat it. Anything else makes no sense in a shipping lane. So the boat was the first one in a long chain of errors here. Ken, if a boat goes out to do a deep dive, it needs to have a technical dive master onboard who can drop the anchor and unfoul it, or it needs to be willing to leave the anchor, or it needs an agreement with one of the divers on board that they will bounce the wreck if the anchor is stuck after everyone is on board. Hence, live boating with a shot line is the only sensible way to do this dive.