what reasons have you seen people not pass certifications?

[parkerco]

Had two students wash out late last summer during their OW dives -- since I was just assisting, however, I have no idea if they followed up and finished later.

One was borderline nervous at the outset and during the mask flood and clear for some reason she pulled her mask 6" off her face straight ahead, which snapped the plastic on the side holding the strap on. Panic, attempted bolt, etc. Instructor nabbed her and escorted her to the surface but could not get her to continue that day -- she came back the next day and worked with us in the shallows, but could not do the skill without panicking and could not complete the rest of the OW dives.

Second was a wife who's husband and son were in the class. She was very anxious about the whole thing and after a few minutes into dive 1 panicked and tried to bolt. Sad, but educational (for me as a newish DM, anyhow) ... you could see it coming before she went (eyes widening as she realizes she's breathing underwater, repeated glances upward). I got the impression from talking to the family that she didn't really wanted to get certified but was pressured into it.

On the bright side, I was assisting a class and pool about a month ago for a small class. Two of the students were a brother and sister (adults) who's older sister works with a dive op in Hawaii and was going to do the open water dives out there for them (trip booked and paid for). Sister had snorkeled multiple times but to her surprise (and ours) could not deal with breathing off a regulator (bubbles freaking her out, overthinking it, etc.). You can imagine the pressure and dissapointment. Instructor worked with her for a bit, then I tried, but no luck. The instructor came in an hour early the next day and worked with her and got her through it, though -- she was still nervous and breathing a lil' fast but she passed all of her skills with flying colors, had a blast and was so excited about it all that it made my week.

 

[friscuba]

Don't know that I've ever "failed" a student. I've encouraged students to decide if they really want to do this in a few occasions. I've had students do 6-7 dives to where I've felt they were comfortable and safe. We've had our share of students with ear troubles over the years. Have had a couple of bolters, generally one bolt is something most students can overcome after a talk about panic and what seemed to the issue that set off the panic at the time, pretty much any student I've ever had that's bolted twice has discontinued the couse of their own accord. Not finishing, and failing are not necessarily the same thing.


Most interesting "failure" I've ever had, and it was hardly a failure, was a 55-ish year old guy (my age range now, but it was "old" 12 years ago) who sailed through the academic and the swim test. We went through all the gear assembly and surface donning, finning and other surface skills and then kneeled down in 42 inches of water. I signaled OK to him, he looked calmly around then signaled OK back, then gave the stop signal and the up sign. We surfaced and he said "You know Steve, a few years back I took a ride in a glider plane, by the time we were 4 feet off the ground I knew I was going to be a glider pilot. I just went 4 inches underwater, and I'm never going to do it again. Thanks."

 

[ianr33]

Easier to just breathe while someone closes the tank valve.

Not going to feel the same though.

Closing the valve immediately stops all air.

Breathing down the tank give s you a large(ish) reservoir of low pressure air. Many regs will breathe gradually harder as the tank pressure drops below IP.

 

[Fish in a Barrel]

I had a classmate fail AOW. He wasn't all that comfortable in the water, and wasn't all that bright, frankly. The frustration of messing up every skill we were learning degraded his comfort to the point that he corked to the surface and couldn't submerge again, even with extra weight.

On a separate note, I see that it is apparently very common for people to bolt during mask clears. While standing in the shallow end of the pool, one of the first things our instructor has us do was remove our masks, lean over into the water, and breath through the reg while counting to 30. Is that common? It seems like that would help spot nose-breathers or people who panic when the water hits their eyes.

 

[scubadiver888]

When I was getting certified, one of the other students could remove and replace his gear at the surface. He was overweight. Got one arm in the BCD and then just spun around and around. The instructor showed us how to ride the BCD and slide down into it. This guy figured he knew better. Took two instructors to haul him back into the boat. He never came back.

 

[g1138]

Not going to feel the same though.

Closing the valve immediately stops all air.

Breathing down the tank give s you a large(ish) reservoir of low pressure air. Many regs will breathe gradually harder as the tank pressure drops below IP.

Actually no, you'll still have residual in your hose and first stage. Usually around 4-6 breaths before you actually hit the dead wall.
It's really the same thing when done on the surface. The real difference is at depth when you get that air expansion thing going during ascent.

In any case the moral of that example was don't breath a tank to 0 unlesss you get permission from said tank's owner.

 

[koozemani]

My gf failed her first try at OW. Anxiety wore her down each time she tried. She has a bit of technology and equipment phobia, which left her always struggling. She would get so wired, nerous that she couldn't complete a dive because she had worn herself out with worry and what if's.

She tried several times to retake her open water classes, but eventually ran out of time. This after trying to do referral dives in several warm water resorts, in the hopes that diving in warmer water would make it easier.

I will say she was determined tho. She wanted to dive with me pretty badly, and was already an avid snorkeler.

She, went right back at it, and tried a second round of PADI OW with another course director who was willing to do extra work (and there was a lot of it) with her to help her work through her anxieties and become comfortable in the gear and under the water.

That was @5 years ago, and she has @85 dives under her belt now, post cert, and is becoming ever better as a diver and as a dive buddy. We kid that it took her 5 years, in 5 different countries to earn her OW, but earn it she did.

+1

my gf had axiety and mask clearing issues. it was more of a control issue than a tech/equip phobia. she stuck with it and eventually got her cert. a warm water dive with a resort cert made a big difference to easing her anxiety. she is still a regular at the pool to keep her comfort level up.

 

[ianr33]

Actually no, you'll still have residual in your hose and first stage. Usually around 4-6 breaths before you actually hit the dead wall.
It's really the same thing when done on the surface. The real difference is at depth when you get that air expansion thing going during ascent.

In any case the moral of that example was don't breath a tank to 0 unlesss you get permission from said tank's owner.

Actually yes Whats the volume of air in a hose compared to the volume of air in a tank?

We agree on the moral part though.

 

[g1138]

Actually yes Whats the volume of air in a hose compared to the volume of air in a tank?

We agree on the moral part though.

Your regulator changes the air in your tank to an intermediate pressure, so tank volume isn't really relevant, you're still not breathing straight off the tank.
Once the tank gets to that intermediate pressure, off goes your air. I think it's the same feeling, the only difference is the air goes quicker with the tank off.
And with first stages these days you'll get the same effort of breath as you would till those last few breaths.

My opinion and all.

 

[boulderjohn]

Breathing down the tank give s you a large(ish) reservoir of low pressure air. Many regs will breathe gradually harder as the tank pressure drops below IP.

Actually no, you'll still have residual in your hose and first stage. Usually around 4-6 breaths before you actually hit the dead wall.
It's really the same thing when done on the surface. The real difference is at depth when you get that air expansion thing going during ascent.

I think this needs some explanation. There is a lot of confusion about this due to the fact that there is an air depletion exercise as a part of the confined water training.

Shutting the air off and breathing the tanks down, whether on the surface or at the bottom of the deep end of the pool, results in the same thing. You are breathing just fine, and then suddenly you have no air whatsoever.

The theory of the exercise is that divers are supposed to experience what it is like when they go OOA at depth, so they can recognize the warning signs and be ready for it. The problem is that this is not what it feels like to go OOA at depth, so the exercise as it is normally done does not accomplish what it is intended to do.

The first stage of your regulator is designed to deliver air to you at roughly 140 PSI more than ambient pressure. The deeper you go, the more pressure it provides you. When a tank starts getting near what we consider to be OOA status, it is no longer able to deliver air at the required pressure. There is still air in there, though. The diver has to suck harder on the regulator to get it out because there is not enough air to deliver it at 140 PSI above ambient pressure. The diver at depth will usually feel it becoming harder and harder to breathe for several breaths before no air is available. [I know the feeling well because I use multiple tanks for decompression dives, and I don't switch off my first one until I feel that first hard breath.)

If a diver does indeed go out of air and ascends, there is no expansion of air in the tank. The tank is an inflexible container, and the air inside has no idea that external pressure is changing. The first stage of the regulator knows, though, because external water pressure is used to assist the regulator in delivering air. (That's how it is able to increase the pressure as you go deeper.) Consequently, as you ascend, before long the water pressure around you will diminish to the point that there is now enough air in the tank for the regulator to give it to you above ambient pressure. If an OOA diver retains the regulator as taught in the CESA exercise, and if he or she were to exhale too much air on ascent, simply inhaling will give another breath--and then another and another.

When I teach the OOA exercise, I don't shut the student's air off completely, because it teaches nothing. Instead I shut it off and crack it slightly open, watching the gauge until I see it wavering near zero. The diver will feel that it is hard to breathe rather than simply go out of air.