What's your dive accessory pet peeve?

[divemonkey33]

You can still cut nylon. Second if you loop the nylon with a buckle you could just undo it with even having to cut. Hard to do with gloves but in that case then maybe you cut it off. But in the worst case I can't break it free with my own strength, but that is the problem if I used something that I can break with my own strength I don't want to use because I will most likely break it when I'm paying attention to it and will be sitting on the ocean floor.

You still should be able to cut away or remove almost any accessory if it gets caught no matter what type of clip it is.

Why didn't John Ormsby cut away? Did he and his buddy forget their knifes at home?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Read the book. Knives will not cut through d rings, or steel cables. His carabiner was clipped on to a dring. The cable got trapped in that clip. Nothing to cut away. Luckily there were bolt cutters on the boat to free the body.

And what buddy? Dives like that are every man for himself. It is understood that you alone are responsible for your safety. If something happens and you can't get yourself out of it you will likely die.

It's why we use cave line to secure something. No metal to metal contact. Your split rings are just as bad. Having them on nylon webbing helps but adds an unnecessary level of complexity. Cave line can be cut and replaced easily. Webbing not so much unless you carry extra and a sewing machine with you.

 

[divemonkey33]

Lets all jump on the assumption train (again). I put said split ring on said accessory Have said nylon around the Dring with a trigger snap. So I do have 4 different ways of freeing myself. But I have been thinking about switching the split rings for quick clips.

1) Open the trigger snap
2) undo the nylon
3) the split ring (not easy but could be done)
4) cut the nylon

See how pointless this is the are many different ways of doing things with out using bolt snaps (ahhhh) and cave line (ahhhhh) that are equally as safe.

 

[ktomlinson]

If you're so about doing things your way, even when told a better way (and yes it's better, Jim told you why), then why did you even take a certification class?

 

[rhwestfall]

I would be interested to resurrect this thread and see what this individual feels after a few years or a couple hundred dives. I can say, I have changed much my perspective. I too have blindly defended my decisions in the past, but seem to have morphed to a position that much follows "mainstream" ideas (without drinking the cool-aid) . Perspective, like a good wine (or a well aged bourbon in my case), gets better with time.......

 

[TheMic]

Plastic Clips, or other peoples dangling hoses or lack of hose retainers.

 

[vladimir]

I will add a vote for underwater noisemakers.

I copied this picture of a "hose clip retainer" as an example of something that seemed like a good idea (when I bought them) but turned out to be a disappointment in its execution:

It seemed like a good way to attach bolt clips to hoses, but they came apart too easily. I have reverted to using cave line (controversial though it may be ) and O-rings.

Now that I have examined the picture, however, I see that they have re-designed these. They look more robust than the ones I bought. At a $1.38 apiece, I will give them another try the next time I order from Dive Gear Express.

 

[ams511]

See how pointless this is the are many different ways of doing things with out using bolt snaps (ahhhh) and cave line (ahhhhh) that are equally as safe.

I never really understood the DIR/GUE fetish for equipment standardization until I read the transcripts of some of the presentations George Irvine made. The lessons behind many of the equipment recommendations were learned "the hard way" through divers' deaths. When divers die there is usually some analysis as to the cause of the death, for example Ormsby died because he could not cut away his gear to free himself, consequently the recommendation for no metal to metal contact. There are many different ways of doing things and that is all well and good until trouble happens underwater. If you have trouble underwater your buddy does not have the time to figure out your unique dive configuration. It is much safer for you to have a "standard" type configuration in cases like this. I recommend you read the transcripts, I think they are still on Frogkick, they may give you a wider perspective on why standardization is good and on how different recommendations developed.

 

[divemonkey33]

Learned the no metal on metal years before learning scuba at the fire fighter academy. But the rule truly only being that you can't have an all metal system. You can have a metal on metal if there is at least one breaking / cutting point between you and whatever.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

So then you need to define a breaking point. In Ormsby's case the only possible breaking point would have been his belt. Not likely as it would have been under his BC and was now wrapped up in cables as he turned to see what he was snagged on or so it is believed. Had he not used the clips in the first place the cable would never have gotten trapped. Had he had cave line between the clip and d ring he may have been able to cut it. Or the divers that did find him would have been able to with a knife and not had to leave the body to retrieve the bolt cutters. Thus placing them at risk again.

The most common ways of doing things such as using cave line are not just for the divers benefit. That would be an incredibly selfish position to take. The ways suggested of doing things were, as AMS511 said, learned the hard way. And they are not just to benefit you. They are also to benefit the people who have to dive with you and possibly rescue or recover you.

If I have to waste time figuring out how to undo a split ring on someone who is entangled, try to open a trigger snap that has been wrapped up in line or net, or get a pair of bolt or wire cutters to get through a metal to metal point that was not necessary to do I want to know before we even get in the water so I can choose not to dive with that person.

I have not read George's presentation transcripts but I think I am going to now. I adopted the methods I use from reading this board and talking to more experienced divers. I've gotten rid of a lot of stuff I had in the beginning because of pre conceived ideas of how things are done on land applying underwater. Some do. Many do not. Common sense now tells me metal to metal on accessories is no good. Period. Simple works and works well. Not only for me but for the people that have to help if something goes wrong. I use cave line and bolt snaps. I take the time to aquire snaps of the proper construction and size for conditions. And when I'm told by more experienced divers and technical instructors I respect to try something else I listen. Comes with age I guess. Letting others do the experimenting and suffer the headaches while I benefit from their wisdom.

I am still looking at ways of improving my set up. And the primary driver behind it is to simplify it for myself and for those that may have to deal with it in an emergency. Overthinking can kill. There are new products coming out all the time to benefit the diver and make their life easier. More often than not they are solutions looking for a problem that does not exist. And some people are good at creating problems where there was none that now require complicated solutions. All because they don't want to see the simple ones that are tried and proven.