When should you flunk a student

[baltimoron]

i beleive every kid, just like every adult, should be treated differently. i think a good thing to do would be to have a kids only class with an instructor who is good at putting things simple and controlling a bunch of kids. sure there should be limits- i mean i would not feel very safe with a 10 year old ADD-ing out on me while we were underwater, but i dont think every kid should get a chance. i was in a class with a very able 14 year old who was one of the best (if not the best) in the class. he was very attentive and eager to get in the water. i really think he was the mone with the most potential in the class.


ok here is a scenario that occured in my OW certification i wont tell you wheater he got certified or not just yet. he was probably a guy near 27 or so. we were in the quarry, he was fine on the platforms doing his skills and had great buoyancy control. so our last dive, we went to a dump truck and it was cold! and this poor guy couldnt keep his lips sealed around the regulator and kept suckin in water. so naturally he panicked, but seemed to semi-keep his cool. he was exhaling the whole time and went up as slowly as his breath could handle. he probably just shot up like a cork from 20 feet or so. he ended up being fine (we all had a good laugh afterwards), i wasnt undwater, but i saw this all happen from the quarry shore. now was this mostly his fault, or was it bad judgement of the instructor to take him down to such a cold depth? would you have told him to take the OW certification again?

 

[drbill]

Back in the days when I was certified, if you failed a skill you failed the course. Even worse was that due to the strong military influence on diving at the time, instructors might demand you get down on all fours and then kick you hard in the *** if you spoke up in class (I did raise a few questions based on logic and my education in physics that resulted in such responses).

Of course by the time I was certified, I knew how to dive fairly well.

Doc

 

[drbill]

Is someone playing games with me? Did a moderator just replace "***" with ***? I can't imagine I wrote that.

Doc

PS- My reply was similarly edited so I assume it must be some sort of automatic censorship... but of that word? You've got to be kidding me!!!

 

[Finnatic]

In my own experience,one buddy team in OW class was a father and 12 y.o. son. The son was beautiful underwater with his father in a swimming pool. However, he could not pass the written test that the adults took. I have mixed feelings on this. As an instructor ( if I was one) I would not certify children on any level. I do think that it is extremely important to have an excellent understanding of the risks involved in this sport. In my case, the 12 y.o. was "coached" until he "passed". I don't think this is fair to that child or anyone. This is SSI. Another in our class could not swim. I coached her privately in my own pool..she could not put her face in the water. She was also deemed worthy to dive. On checkout dives both of these individuals "passed" - the 12 y.o. much more comfortable than the panic stricken non-swimmer. Would I dive with any of these people? Not a chance.

 

[Finnatic]

To reply specifically to Baltimoron...sorry you hijacked this thread...the diver experiencing discomfort to the point of having to make an emergency controlled swimming ascent...I do hope that he learned the ultimate lesson, but sorry that he had to learn it in this manner. The ultimate lesson is to dive within your limits and that EVERY dive ends immediately when the thumb goes up..no questions asked!

 

[CathyS]

Another in our class could not swim. I coached her privately in my own pool..she could not put her face in the water.

Cindy,

Just out of curiosity, why was the non-swimmer who couldn't put her face in the water taking the class? Trying to conquer fear of water? Peer pressure from friends?

Cathy

 

[Finnatic]

Cathy,
She was quite game..peer pressure from S.O...fact remains she could not put her face in the water comfortably, nor could she swim, or tread water. Confined Water excercises brought her to tears..repeatedly..she still "passed". The 12 y.o. "miracurously' passed the written tests with "special" coaching. Although we have contacted our initial classmates repeatedly regarding a club and trips and dive related socialization..they have ignored us. On the other hand...we are having a ball!

 

[drbill]

Finnatic- the fact that these two students both passed is indicative of how far astray certain instructors (and agencies?) have gone. By passing such students, instructors (and agencies?) place not only these students in jeopardy, but those who dive with them as buddies... and those of us who might be put in the position of potentially rescuing them.

I see far too many people in the Dive Park and while traveling who should never have been certified- they simply don't have the skills and/or the confidence in the water.

I have been an educator most of my adult life. In an academic class I would never pass a student whose understanding of the material did not exceed certain standards. Were I a SCUBA instructor (which I have no desire to be), it would be even more important to make sure students had the skills necessary to become certified. If not... fail them for their sake and everyone else's.

Doc

 

[Diver0001]

Finnatic- the fact that these two students both passed is indicative of how far astray certain instructors (and agencies?) have gone. By passing such students, instructors (and agencies?) place not only these students in jeopardy, but those who dive with them as buddies... and those of us who might be put in the position of potentially rescuing them.

I see far too many people in the Dive Park and while traveling who should never have been certified- they simply don't have the skills and/or the confidence in the water.

I have been an educator most of my adult life. In an academic class I would never pass a student whose understanding of the material did not exceed certain standards. Were I a SCUBA instructor (which I have no desire to be), it would be even more important to make sure students had the skills necessary to become certified. If not... fail them for their sake and everyone else's.

Doc

I wouldn't blame the agency. The agency isn't forcing any instructor to take on such a student. It's the instructor's own responsibility and often times these highly challenging students can't be certified at all without "bending the rules" (read making standards violations).

In fact it isn't uncommon for aquaphobics to look to scubadiving as a way to confront their problem, just like people who are afraid of heights somehow find skydiving interesting.....

This might come as some surprise but teaching such a student to dive isn't much fun for the student or for the instructor. The only cases I've seen at the shop where I assist have been weeded out by the intro. We don't teach them. We suggest they take swimming lessons first and come back when they're feeling more comfortable.

R..

 

[CathyS]

In fact it isn't uncommon for aquaphobics to look to scubadiving as a way to confront their problem, just like people who are afraid of heights somehow find skydiving interesting.....

I'll admit it, I'm an aquaphobic who took the OW class as a way to confront my problem. I will say, though, that my water issues were nowhere near as extreme as what Finnatic was talking about. I can swim, I can tread, I can float, I've got no problem sticking my face in the water. It's just that when swimming in water that's over my head, I tend to worry too much about the possibility of drowning. And what I learned in my OW class is that I'm a LOT more comfortable in the water with scuba gear than I am without it. Nice to have that air supply along with me. Perhaps I should not have been certified. Time will tell. I'm doing my first post-certification dives with some friends this weekend and I plan to take it slowly.

Still hate the giant stride, though. Maybe I need a skydiving lesson to conquer my fear of heights.