Where do the grey market retailers get the gear?

[Wreck]

But if they want to perpetuate the myth of "authorized products" all they have to do is bust a couple of "authorized dealers" that are cheating and it will stop. What moron would risk losing a line to boost a one month or year bottom line? When you really look at it there are not that many lines in Scuba to begin with. You lose one big one and it would put a hurt on you.

When it comes to equipment, there are many manufacturers to select from. Loose one line, just jump to another. One local LDS is a large Scubapro outlet for the mid-atlantic. One of the mangement even spoke of droppping their line becuase of some issues they'd had with company reps. That didn't sound moronic/detrimental at all. There is choice for an LDS.

I think in the end the consumers (All Divers) and the Local Dive Shops get hurt. LDS's cant compete with the price aspect. Service must be there backbone. Service of equipment and knowledge (classes). But it takes away what must be a big part of there overall business. In the end as shops close its also the Divers that get hurt.

As far as this diver is concerned, the only "hurt" would be fewer local classes (for convenience), should I want to take any more. Since I have all my own gear, or can get it from the onliners rather than the local LDCs, I don't really need an LDS around for that purpose. What I see is that classes are offered to attract new customers, who blindly buy gear they see in the LDC or on their instructors. That LP exists, most new divers are probably not even aware of. I know I wasn't at first, but onliners & ebay have gotten a share of my purchases since. Servicing equipment is another issue. I'm sure if there was enough servicing business to be had, there would be those opening up shops just for that purpose.

 

[Wreck]

....but the bottom line is that eventually if the LDS's do not figure a way to compete their going to go by the way side and SCUBA in general as a recreational sport will go with it. The normal arguement is that they offer service. This alone is just not enough anymore.

No, they offer classes, and that's how they're able to generate an endless stream of new divers, oblivious to all our equipment sources than what they see on the shelves of the LDS where they are trained. Granted, most only buy snorkeling gear (and sometimes neoprene) for that carribean trip, but the markups on that stuff are already rediculous profit margins (correct if I'm wrong) What keeps LDS's alive is new customers. Without them, most would probably fold in a matter of months.

I agree we need the LP's out there to keep the LDS honest but the LP's alone are not the solution. The LDS simply can not buy the products for the same price as LP. (Regardless of the warrantee).

Why not? I would think dealers should get preferential wholesale pricing(?) At least as good as what the onliners are getting their stuff for, right?

My point is that I WANT it all. Great price, a warrantee and local service. The only way to do that is for the LDS's to group together and buy in quantity. :box:

Many industries have gone this route and when they do WE win as consumers.

I'm all for that. But there has to be a very good reason why they're not doing that already. Maybe it's just not an issue to them yet, so we shouldn't be concerned either, just yet.

 

[scubasean]

Wow.....reopened on oldie...heh

But, still relevant...

 

[jbisjim]

For me it boils down too.

Do I or don't I support my LDS. I am not opposed to keeping your LDS honest.

Do I want my LDS to close? Not really. If me paying a few bucks more mean my LDS stays open then I am all about it.

 

[Wreck]

For me it boils down too.

Do I or don't I support my LDS. I am not opposed to keeping your LDS honest.

Do I want my LDS to close? Not really. If me paying a few bucks more mean my LDS stays open then I am all about it.

A few bucks isn't the issue with most of us here (I have to assume) and would never keep me from supporting the local DS. However, when we talk savings of $50-500 my wallet wins out on that argument every time. I suspect that also applies to most people here. If not, you're all wealthier than I am

 

[Nomaster]

Like the title says. If they are not "authorized dealers" where in the world are they getting all the product??????????...

Since, as noted in this thread, major parts are serial numbered, they aren't stolen or the insurance companies would trace them to recover large losses.
Wouldn't they?

Tom

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Have any of you guys every been to LP, my buddy stopped a few weeks ago, one word: SHADY

I've been there a few times, they were always professional and -very- product savvy to me.

Nice shop, too.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Any large manufacturer has the ability to track all of their serial numbered items.

Drew's mom bought his reg at LP and scubapro knew where he got it from... of course they did. you think scuba pro (or any of the big names) can't track every reg made in the last few years to every distributor they've sold it to? wake up people.
If they didn't keep track, every person that ever bought a reg online could say it was a "gift". All of the gear I've bought from online stores came with all the "cards" and proper papers, and the couple of times I tried to register I was told it wasn't bought from an "authorized dealer"

Every reg I've ever bought had the model, serial number and a bar code on the box. I'll place a bet, that every reg gets scanned before it gets shipped out And recorded in the computer, is what distributor its going to. It would take about an hour for a large company to stop the flow of "grey market" products to places like LP.

Just a little nugget to chew on...
How come halcyon (with their grossly overinflated manditory pricing) is impossible to find at "UNauthorized dealers"????
I can't think of a better brand to make money online discounted. All of their dealers must sell at a fixed price, no discounting allowed. A place like LP would sell a ton of halcyon gear if they could get it.
Is it because halcyon isn't sold overseas? nope they have overseas dealers....

Or is it because JJ keeps track of his distribution and won't sell out the "back door" to certain places.?????
And halcyon is not even close to the size of the big names like oceanic, scubapro, sherwood, etc.... so little guys like JJ have mastered the art of product tracking but the huge companies like sherwood can't figure out how to do it?


wake up, if LP went out of business tommorow scubapro would cry.

:whack:

What he said.

Exactly.

 

[mike_s]

Gray Market dealers get their stock from many places. Stores like Leisure Pro get it from overseas, whole-sellers, and legit US Scuba stores (Local dive shops). Why don't scuba manufacturers stop it? well they want to support their dealers, but at the same time they want volume of sales. They just let it happen for the most part.

In fact they almost encourage it. For example. Sherwood requires I think a minimum $2500 on an order. Most smaller dive shops can't do $2500 orders all the time. Some dealer lines require you to order something like $25,000 per year minimum to be a dealer. most dive shops won't sell $25k of one line a year. So what happens is that Leisure Pro will offer to buy a large portion of that $25,000 comittment that is required to be a dealer.

That way the local dive shop gets what they want and so does Leisure Pro. It's just a way that the dealer agreement gets fufilled (somewhat). It also keeps small dive shops from closing down and so they can get product.

Why do manufacturers let this happen? exactly what I said before. They want the sales volume. They just turn a blind eye. I guess the reason they just don'e outright allow it is because of insurance liabilities since if someone dies from scuba equipment that people get sue happy.