Why do the LDS's take it????

[sandmanz32]

There are 2 LDS in my area, both within 20 miles of me. I have spent a good deal in gear and training with both of them i have also spent a good deal online. IMO the LDS will always be the best place to buy regs and bc's. the store here has an inhouse pool that you can use to try out the gear before you buy it......hard to find that online. also that same shop also has comparable prices to leisurepro. for instance, a sherwood tortuga bcd, maximus reg, air2, and aeris epic at the lds goes for 1848. the same kit on leisurepro goes for 1984. so the net is not always the cheaper route. now for small items that you can buy a buttload of at once; knives, lights, lift bags, buoys, etc online is the way to go. once again JMHO!

 

[Patty]

You totally hit the nail on the head! These is no good reason to not develop a business plan like Scubatoys.

One observation I've not seen in this thread:

Most dive businesses are woefully undercapitalized!

Where I live we have 20 odd dive shops in the city. Many or most of them are tiny holes in the wall. Numbers have antiquated, worn-out rental equipment. Many haven't had their shops refitted for years, and the initial fitout was lousy. They're almost uniformly in bad retail areas. (I'm exaggerating a bit here for rhetorical effect, some are not bad. But there's certainly this pattern)

I suspect it's a result of someone having a dream, to open up a diveshop, scraping together savings and a bit more mortgage on the house until they have the minimum possible, and then with no real retail experience sinking it into inventory, a basic compressor and a substandard fitout.

Thus we have 20 tiny ratty-looking stores with lousy inventory in ratty locations rather than 5 big ones with good inventory in good locations.

The second observation is that:

Dive businesses are incredibly complex!

Compare a diveshop to a clothing outlet.

A clothes shop just sells clothes.

A diveshop:
- sells retail goods
- provides training services
- provides a rental outlet
- often runs a little travel-agent service
- has a compressor (large expensive complex equipment) which they operate

They're trying to juggle five times as many things as the clothing outlet! Just one of these should be a full time endeavor.

The truth is if I were going to open up a diveshop I'd first get a job for two years as a manager of a store in a chain of some other retail enterprise, and made sure that I lived, breathed and drank retail. Then I'd work in the hire industry for a year, and get superb skills at managing a hire business. Likewise a training business, and a travel agent, and so on. Only with this five-odd years of experience in all the aspects of running these businesses, especially retail, I'd risk my own money (and lots and lots of it) trying to run a diveshop.

 

[LIVES4SHARKS]

In the beginning of the year, I was a clueless off the street newbie to diving. I wanted to dive but had no idea of what all I was getting into. I felt very welcome into my LDS and I think it was because they knew they had me from the moment I walked through the door. $2500 dollars later, I was all set for my OW course. Because, "you really need your own gear to make the course work for you! Don't ya know!" *sigh* After getting certified, I met with people who truly believed in diving for the sport that it is. I basically was educated in the scuba world and am slowly getting it in my brain how the POLITICS work! I realized I was the victim of my dive shop, as a new diver being roped into gear I certainly didn't need. Next, I went on an expensive dive trip with the same group that trained me and was left behind under and above water in a foreign country! Then, I was criticised by my LDS for how I have been training, and the conversions that I have made to my equipment. ( I am transitioning to the DIR route.) So, it has been a rough couple of months!

But there is a shiny bright spot at the end of this saga! I have a mentor who has helped me understand my diving and to be a better diver and dive buddy! I have found a community of people who believe in protecting each other and the sport. I have found a group of dive shops who listen and meet the needs of the community around them. I think I truly have found my SCUBA NIRVANA! It was proven to me this past weekend when I met incredible people and amazing divers! It was proven to me by the way one LDS operates his business and treats his customers! Even if I have to spend a little more money for some equipment, I know this business owner stands by his customers and only wants to be sure they come back safe from every dive!

My SCUBA NIRVANA was discovered in HIGH SPRINGS FLORIDA! If every business would be run like SALVO http://www.salvosupply.com/, I think there would be a lot more happy divers and less dramatic stories of LDS "shops of horrors"!

Since we are in inflated times...my $.02 is now about $.39!
HAPPY AND SAFE DIVING Y'ALL!
Carolyn :sharks:

 

[ReefHound]

for instance, a sherwood tortuga bcd, maximus reg, air2, and aeris epic at the lds goes for 1848. the same kit on leisurepro goes for 1984. so the net is not always the cheaper route.

No doubt you can find certain specific items or packages that some LDS somewhere has cheaper than LP, but it isn't some mass delusion that online prices are cheaper. If you take a random shopping cart of items and compare I'll bet LP is cheaper the vast majority of the time. Also, you are comparing a LDS special package with the sum of individual items from LP. Try it in reverse, take a LP package and price out the individual items at your LDS.

If you can afford to build your kit over time or aren't dead set on some mixed package like that for some reason, LP often runs sales and specials on featured items where you can often save up to 50%. For instance, you can get Sherwood package #6 at LP (Blizzard reg, octo, Tortuga BC, and Wisdom computer console) for $1065.

 

[chipwd]

There are 2 LDS in my area, both within 20 miles of me. I have spent a good deal in gear and training with both of them i have also spent a good deal online. IMO the LDS will always be the best place to buy regs and bc's. the store here has an inhouse pool that you can use to try out the gear before you buy it......hard to find that online. also that same shop also has comparable prices to leisurepro. for instance, a sherwood tortuga bcd, maximus reg, air2, and aeris epic at the lds goes for 1848. the same kit on leisurepro goes for 1984. so the net is not always the cheaper route. now for small items that you can buy a buttload of at once; knives, lights, lift bags, buoys, etc online is the way to go. once again JMHO!

Lucky you! The dive shops in my area do not have inhouse pools and do not have prices anywhere near internet pricing. Slim pickings around here!

 

[Thalassamania]

We’re not discussing this from a dive shop’s perspective but rather from the perspective of a diver who is making the decision to purchase from a shop or the web. Let me add a twist, your first real decision is, “do you take your class from an independent instructor or at a shop?”

One of the biggest advantages of taking your training from an independent is that you get gear advice that is, just that, “independent” of profit motive. You get gear selection advice, fitting advice, even purchasing advice and help. My courses aren’t cheap, they run about three times what a shop charges. I also require that students have a full set of gear, and I help them with the process of selection and purchase.

You know what? In most cases I can save them their entire tuition with web purchases and/or ten to fifteen up deals at shops who are smart enough to realize that my folks don’t tie up the shop help, don’t need it right away, can wait a week or two, pay up front and never return the gear because it doesn’t work right or fit right.

 

[Humble older aquaman]

Business 101

1. Quality products for sale

2. Quality service

3. Competitive retail pricing

Very few businesses can do all the above. Most have to focus on 2 of the 3...

Mail order, online types, 1 & 3.

Brick morter types, 1 & 2.

How one values their time, or their money...that answer is more elusive than most business types can figure. Sure, some general observations can be safely made, but a formula for all, good luck!

Guess I like the option of both. The mass mentality for some things, accessories for example, is fair enough. The more face to face mentality for other things, is this a good dive site/course/boat/air/computer for example is more to my liking.

Hoa!

 

[redacted]

Business 101

1. Quality products for sale

2. Quality service

3. Competitive retail pricing

Very few businesses can do all the above. Most have to focus on 2 of the 3...

Mail order, online types, 1 & 3.

Brick morter types, 1 & 2.

How one values their time, or their money...that answer is more elusive than most business types can figure. Sure, some general observations can be safely made, but a formula for all, good luck!

Guess I like the option of both. The mass mentality for some things, accessories for example, is fair enough. The more face to face mentality for other things, is this a good dive site/course/boat/air/computer for example is more to my liking.

Hoa!

Why choose when you can have all 3? http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=187866&highlight=scubatoys
I suspect Phil Ellis at Dive Sports as wll as some other enlighted dealers are offering similar service allong with good inventory and competetive prices.

 

[waynel]

There are 2 LDS in my area, both within 20 miles of me. I have spent a good deal in gear and training with both of them i have also spent a good deal online. IMO the LDS will always be the best place to buy regs and bc's. the store here has an inhouse pool that you can use to try out the gear before you buy it......hard to find that online. also that same shop also has comparable prices to leisurepro. for instance, a sherwood tortuga bcd, maximus reg, air2, and aeris epic at the lds goes for 1848. the same kit on leisurepro goes for 1984. so the net is not always the cheaper route. now for small items that you can buy a buttload of at once; knives, lights, lift bags, buoys, etc online is the way to go. once again JMHO!

You are exactly right. I might buy cuff links online, but if I want to buy an Armani suit, rest assured I will need to put it on my body first. I've met more than one diver who thought they "saved a bundle" buying wetsuits and BC's online only to see the savings evaporate in shipping costs sending it back to the supplier or the supplier wanting them to pay the shipping for another suit or BC that hopefully fits and actually gets to them before they hop on a plane.

 

[PaulSmithTek]

I can greatly say it is sad. We do have a few of those here in utah. But.....The dive shop I go to now is not that way. They just ordered my stuff for me over the phone and I will pay when It gets here. They definitly try to earn my respect and appriciation for LDS. I will not go anywhere else. By the way they are almost and hour from my house.