Work permits for non-Egyptian diving staff required for CDWS renewals

[Red Sea Shadow]

I'm sorry but what a pile of sh*te!!!! How is 3-10 ratio a greater ratio than 1-1???? Obviously from an Egyptian perspective it is, but for a non-Egyptian it isn't!!!!!

And as for the Estqdam....yes they might have changed it so that you do not have to leave the country, however your work permit just simply gets back-dated to the date of your last entry stamp, as mine did!!! I specifically asked this question at the start of my work permit process and got told no it was not an issue!!! I would have rather spent the money on taking a day trip to Jordan or Petra or somewhere else and experienced the culture within the surrounding area than line someone's pocket!!!!

I think the ratio thing is a typing mistake. I took it copy and paste; as is.

Since it's an official correspondence, feel free to contact CDWS illustrating your point of views.

 

[Scuba Sheep]

I think the ratio thing is a typing mistake. I took it copy and paste; as is.

Since it's an official correspondence, feel free to contact CDWS illustrating your point of views.

Sorry RSS it wasn't a go at you, it's just the mentality of the CDWS, and I don't think it is a typing mistake as it's not the 1st time I've heard a similar quote!!

Something else to throw into the discussion pot: CDWS: Chamber of Diving and Watersports....when it came to light last year about the work permit situe and had to sit the exam etc etc etc we (divers) got told it also applied to EVERYONE involved in working with the water ie boat captains, snorkel guides, windsurf staff, kitesurf staff. However I've not heard of a SINGLE wind/kite surf staff getting themselves work permits etc and no-one is checking up on them either. Divers move around to different sites etc, so we are easy targets/pickings!!!! Lame excuse/reason, CDWS get off your arse and do you job, police in the correct manner all the centres/staff that are not complying to your rules, oh and whilst you are at it, comply to your own rules!!!!

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Something else to throw into the discussion pot: CDWS: Chamber of Diving and Watersports....when it came to light last year about the work permit situe and had to sit the exam etc etc etc we (divers) got told it also applied to EVERYONE involved in working with the water ie boat captains, snorkel guides, windsurf staff, kitesurf staff. However I've not heard of a SINGLE wind/kite surf staff getting themselves work permits etc and no-one is checking up on them either. Divers move around to different sites etc, so we are easy targets/pickings!!!! Lame excuse/reason, CDWS get off your arse and do you job, police in the correct manner all the centres/staff that are not complying to your rules, oh and whilst you are at it, comply to your own rules!!!!

True, but it's mainly about diving.

As you pointed out, surfers don't move around as much as divers. It's mainly in front of their facilities so controlling/regulating their activities is not an easy task. I don't think they need paperwork (other than for internal record keeping, liability, etc...) to get their job done so why on earth would they send their staff to get CDWS cards?

I think one of CDWS goals is to "harmonize" all water activities. For example, to stop glass-bottom boats from tracing divers (they show them to their guests as an attraction!!!) Also to organize the workplace between dive centers and aqua centers (Sharm local sites is a good example).

 

[String]

however your work permit just simply gets back-dated to the date of your last entry stamp, as mine did!!!

It's supposed to be that but as per usual none of the officials know or understand whats going on so you have permits assigned with completely random expiry dates.

11 of us went up and got 7 different dates for example.

In my case it SHOULD expire the beginning of november however they seem to have allocated it 12 months from when i turned up at el turd to get the stamp whereas others had the opposite. Its chaos and the officials themselves don't know their own system so don't expect it fixed quickly.

(FWIW we just did some israel border runs to get the last date of entry refreshed).

Also, we were told it was the watersports in general so windsurf schools, kitesurf and everything else would also have to comply. However as far as im aware not one person from one of those centres has been made to or bothered and not suprisingly, no enforcement either.

 

[String]

This article fleshes out some of the more common complaints:

A murky business: Diving chamber accused of corruption | Al-Masry Al-Youm: Today's News from Egypt

Diving centers and safari boat operators that pass a CDWS audit, and pay registration fees, are granted ISO certification and membership in the chamber--a prerequisite for receiving an operating license from the Ministry of Tourism. Those that fail are placed on the chamber’s blacklist and are subject to having their operating licenses refused or revoked.

The auditing process is a controversial one. Some diving center operators claim it is a smokescreen to disguise a biased and opaque licensing process. They charge that dodgy operators “who play ball” are granted licenses, while decent operators--particularly competitors of CDWS board members’ own business interests--are blacklisted for minor infractions and forced out of business.

It all boils down to money, says a Facebook group called “Say no to the CDWS.”

“[The CDWS is run by] opportunists who have no qualms about putting ill-gotten money into their pockets, and hurting their competitors. Some of these parasites continue to run their private businesses, using their positions in the CDWS to their advantage and [to] the disadvantage of competitors, while being paid a huge salary by the CDWS,” the group said in a statement.

The first CDWS board election in November 2008 named Hisham Gabr, owner of Camel Dive Club in Sharm El-Sheikh, as chairman. The board members, elected for three year terms, have--according to one angry diving center owner--colluded to consolidate their control over the lucrative industry.

According to Sabry, the CDWS is facing dozens of lawsuits from wrongfully blacklisted dive centers, and its board is currently under investigation for corruption. He also claims to have documents that prove the chamber paid police and coast guard officials to act as its enforcers.

“These people are using our money to buy authority that has the power to stop [dive boats] and diving centers from working,” Sabry told Al-Masry Al-Youm. “Two hundred diving centers and 1,800 diving instructors are out of work because of this illegitimate chamber. Each diving center is worth between LE3 million and LE200 million, so you’re talking about billions of pounds lost because of this corruption.”

The next part is the one i find most laughable:

“To compete in this industry you must have your own kitchen,” El-Bassel asserted. “If you cannot afford to have 60 tanks and a filling station with a capacity of 250 liters per minute, you will not have enough [capital] to run your operation and hire proper guides or instructors. All you’ll do is try to find out how much [competitors are] selling for and attempt to [undercut] them... to steal their customers.”

Some business owners say the equipment requirements have unfairly forced the closure of small, specialized diving centers and even a center for recreational freediving, an activity that does not require any scuba equipment.

“According to [CDWS], we are a dive center and need a dive license, with… 60 tanks, a compressor, scuba diving equipment and whatnot,” said Linda Paganelli, co-founder of Freedive Dahab. “Problem is, I would even be willing to do that, but it’s impossible since they stopped issuing diving licenses in 2008 because there are too many diving centers in Dahab.”

The rules are ridiculous here. If you own a small dive centre thats part of a small hotel or guest house that might get 10 customers through per day you dont NEED 60 tanks, a monster compressor and 400kg+ of lead. Yet if you don't have it you're classed as "unsafe", closed and placed on the CDWS dangerous dive centre list thereby losing all your business.

The entire system is set up to protect large centres and large chains of centres (like most of the board members own) but at the expensive of smaller, more intimate dive centres that have no wish to be faceless large chains.

The freedive centre being closed when we heard we first thought was a windup but it turned out to be true - another example of the farcical regulation and enforcement now.


I don't think anyone has a problem with a standard framework for quality, equipment and staff requirements but what we have now blatently isn't it. Just because you comply doesn't mean you're safe, just because you're on their blacklist doesn't mean you are unsafe - it might simply mean you were a small dive centre so they don't like you!

I don't think anyone would be upset if they introduced stricter rules to ensure the quality of staff but again they havent. The exams are a complete waste of everyones time and money and at a level any open water level diver would pass and most people who aren't divers with common sense would pass. The standard of question is so low it filters nobody at all and is utterly worthless.

 

[String]

Why are you spamming an article in every post you can find including one where the same article is linked immediately above?!

 

[Scuba Sheep]

The exams are a complete waste of everyones time and money and at a level any open water level diver would pass and most people who aren't divers with common sense would pass. The standard of question is so low it filters nobody at all and is utterly worthless.

Not to mention, the exams are online!!!! Someone managed to get a copy of them, scanned them and are posted here:

Diving & The CDWS: The f...ing CDWS-Exam is now online! And free for download!

Surely you would have thought CDWS would get someone to scan and read forums such as this, as well as the link above and work to resolve issues raised!!!! If they took the time to read through the many threads about them, then I'm sure they could create useful and realistic tactical plans/strategies that would improve the diving industry from the staff that work it day in day out, rather than what they THINK we need, or what benefits them the most and how they could make even more money!!!!!!

The whole Freediving centre issue, is one of the biggest farces on here, but lets think, if they let them operate, it's not intruding into the big dive centres business, and yet it would also generate business for CDWS to then get affiliation fees from....but instead, no lets close it, and make no money from them!!!!

 

[String]

Haha great its online. Hopefully though people can read it and see what a complete farce and waste of money it is. This should get as much publicity as possible to show the "standard" people have to meet!

If they took the time to read through the many threads about them, then I'm sure they could create useful and realistic tactical plans/strategies that would improve the diving industry from the staff that work it day in day out, rather than what they THINK we need, or what benefits them the most and how they could make even more money!!!!!!

I doubt it. They're told face to face in the meetings and ignore that so i guess internet isnt high on the list.

The whole Freediving centre issue, is one of the biggest farces on here, but lets think, if they let them operate, it's not intruding into the big dive centres business, and yet it would also generate business for CDWS to then get affiliation fees from....but instead, no lets close it, and make no money from them!!!!

The official CDWS line with the freedive centre is they "failed to supply any paperwork at all". Not saying i believe them but thats what the rep said on the subject.

Edit:- Just found my favourite question on that farce exam, question 67

Cone Shells are:-
(i) Beautiful collection item and harmless
(ii) Aggressive
(iii) Poisonous
(iv) Good Pets

Not-withstanding the fact that none of those answers are correct it sums up the standard of the exam nicely i feel!