Train wreck in 1939?

Rick L · Jan 24, 2006

Hi I was told by a friend of a train wreck in 1939 of engine 3666!
He said its in great bay?
Has anyone dove on or heard of this wreck?
Rick L

PaulChristenson · Jan 25, 2006

Rick L:
Hi I was told by a friend of a train wreck in 1939 of engine 3666!
He said its in great bay?
Has anyone dove on or heard of this wreck?
Rick L

Well if you research the following site, there are no references to your data

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/home.html

Maybe you can find it

Paul in VT

Jeff Toorish · Jan 25, 2006

Rick,

Did your friend mention any more details?

Jeff

swampy · Jan 25, 2006

click on the link below. then click on the blue folder farthest to the left of the page at the top.

http://www.portsmouthscuba.com/flash/chanlmap.pdf

If you do this dive please post a report
Thanks

Swampy

Green_Manelishi · Jan 25, 2006

Rick L:
Hi I was told by a friend of a train wreck in 1939 of engine 3666!
He said its in great bay?
Has anyone dove on or heard of this wreck?
Rick L

There is a "train wreck" in the Piscataqua River but it's not in the Great Bay. It's closer to the Sara(h) Long Bridge. Not very deep but it's in the river and close to the channel. Soooo, if you are diving it and a freighter comes up river (or down river) you might be asked to move your boat.

I dove it a couple of years ago. Because it's in the river it is silted in or not and if you did not know what it was I don't think you'd be able to look at it and say "hey, that's a train wreck". I've been trying to obtain some of the pictures that were taken but so far no success.

I highly suggest that if you are interested in diving that wreck you do it with someone who has before and is familiar with that river. The Piscataqua is one of the fastest currents in the world when she is full-bore and you do NOT want to be drifting, especially on the surface, if you can avoid it. You could go a loooong way before you can exit the river.

scubastew · Jan 25, 2006

Having lived in Portsmouth NH I can confirm, "A Looooooong Way", like the Isle of Shoals!! That's no understatement by Manelishi

on a side note: Green Manelishi are you a big Judas Priest fan?

Green_Manelishi · Jan 25, 2006

scubastew:
on a side note: Green Manelishi are you a big Judas Priest fan?

Well I am not that big ;-) but yes the name Green Manelishi is from the song.
And I changed the spelling from ManAlishi to ManElishi.

However, JP was not the original; it was originally written by Peter Green (of the Fleetwood Mac) who is/was one of the premier blues-men in England. Gary Moore owns a Gibson (Sunburst?) sold to him by PG when he (PG) quit playing; PG knew that GM would take good care of that 'gitar'. Moore eventually recorded a collection of songs called "Blues for Greenie".

Rock on, dive well.

G_M

Rick L · Jan 25, 2006

Thanks ive been searching since he told me about it!
Would be a cool dive.
Ill have to get more info on before diving!
Rick L

Rick L · Jan 25, 2006

OOps thanks swampy great map

Rick L

DiverChas · May 18, 2008

Found this piece of history on the wreck while researching the dive. Thought you might be interested.

Newsletter of the Walker Transportation Collection

True Tales of the Rails

In this issue we’d like to try something a little different and tell you an interesting story about an image in our collection of Boston & Maine Railroad material.

While recently looking through pictures of that railroad’s “Pacific” type steam locomotives, we came across a beautiful shot of #3666 taken at Beverly Depot by our own Harold W. Boothroyd on July 3, 1939. As with many of the locomotive photos he took in the local area, this one is a sharp, well-lighted image which captures a moment from that time, allowing us to study all the details of the train and its surroundings. Very nice, but what makes it unique is the date it was taken. You see, exactly two months and seven days later B&M #3666 would be lost in a tragic accident at Portsmouth, N.H.

Built in 1913 by the American Locomotive Co. in Schenectady, N.Y., #3666 was just one of many similar engines on the B&M’s roster. This class of power operated primarily in passenger service. Nothing unusual happened to this particular locomotive until Sunday evening September 10, 1939. To continue, we quote from an April 1972 article in the 470 Railroad Club newsletter by Kendall Menut of Newburyport, and also from the late Charles P. Smith (former Walker member), of Woburn.

Mr. Menut: “Train 2013 left Boston at 1:30 pm behind engine #3666, a local to Portsmouth, N.H. (which passed through Beverly – ed.). After a short layover at Portsmouth, the #3666 was turned and backed its train of deadhead equipment (now called Train 2021) to North Berwick, ME where the #3666 ran around the train and waited for the arrival of connecting Train 1044, a local passenger train leaving Portland at 6:35 pm for Boston via the Western Route. Passengers from points in Maine destined to Eastern Route points transferred at North Berwick to the waiting train, now numbered Train 2024 in the time-table… a Sunday-only local from North Berwick to Boston.”

Now we quote briefly from a piece in the Portland Press Herald of September 11, 1939:

“As Train 2024 headed for Boston, it passed over the century-old wooden bridge across the Piscataqua River between Kittery, Maine and Portsmouth, N.H. About half way across, the bridge timbers beneath the trestle suddenly gave way and engine #3666, her tender, and the first car of the train plunged into the cold, black 60-foot deep river. As the air brake hoses between the cars parted, the brakes went into emergency, stopping the remaining passenger cars before they could follow the other equipment into the river below. Engineer John Beattie of Somerville and fireman Charles H. Towle of Portland were drowned. There were just 12 passengers on the train, including 3 children and 2 women, plus the conductor, brakeman and a baggagemaster. All were safe in the rear cars and were taken by handcars to the end of the bridge where they transferred to a bus to complete their trip. Fireman Towle’s body was found shortly after the accident, but Beattie’s body would not be found until several days later, far upstream at Dover Point.”

Mr. Smith: “This particular Sunday I was going to take a ride on that train. I got to Lynn too late, and saw Train 2013 going past on the way to Portsmouth. I came back around 9 pm that evening and heard about the train going through the bridge. Then I was glad that I had missed it in the afternoon as I would have been riding in the head coach.

I talked to the conductor, H. K. Staley, a couple of days later. He said they started over the bridge at a slow speed.

All of a sudden the brakes went on and they stopped. He started through the train from the rear car and when he got into the second coach, he started walking ‘downhill’. When he opened the door, there was nothing. All he could hear was the water rushing under him.

While a new bridge was being constructed along-side the old one, a caisson at the new bridge site had dragged its anchor cables and the cables in turn pulled out several bents of the bridge span so that it was unsupported at the time #3666 ran over it.”

Engine #3666 and the coach were never recovered, and to this day lie in their watery grave at Portsmouth. They have not remained there in peace however, being the subject of several attempts to remove them.

The first such attempt came in June, 1940, when, having decided not to try to lift the equipment from the deep swirling currents of the river, a team of divers under the direction of former Massachusetts Institute of Technology instructor Randall Cramer of New York placed copper cables around the locomotive. The idea was that through the process of electrolysis, eventually the #3666 would disintegrate.

This theory was based on early scientist Michael Faraday’s experiments in the 1830s which he wrote up as his “First Law of Electrolysis”. Setting copper near iron on the train in the salt water of the Piscataqua River it was hoped would cause an electrical action similar to that in an ordinary car battery, the water forming an electrotype. The electrical current would pass from the copper wire and plates (cathode) which would gain weight, while the train (anode) would lose weight. The particles that would gather on the copper would drop onto the river bottom, keeping the metal clean and the electrical current active.

This experiment was not successful, and by 1966 the wreck was declared a menace to navigation. A Boston salvage firm was hired to dispose of it, and they elected to simply move it out of the shipping channel rather than remove it from the river. With barges and cranes, the equipment was lifted off the bottom and while suspended below the surface, dragged upstream and toward the shore. It was then unceremoniously dumped back on the muddy bottom. That was not to be the end of the story.

In April 1995 a New Hampshire Port Authority pier project was planned. As it turned out, #3666 seemed to once more be in the path of progress! So it was decided to move her again…this time out of the river entirely, which caused great excitement among the historical community. Hopes later were dashed, however, when Acting Director of the N.H. Port Authority, Tom Orfe, announced, “We’re not going to move it. It’s not within the dredging limits.”

Realizing it would cost $75,000 to lift the engine out of the water, Orfe said they decided the money didn’t need to be spent. “The engine is at least 30 feet below the surface of the water at low tide and 200 feet outside the limits of the project. It would be fun to do, and nice, but I didn’t think we should spend the taxpayer’s money.” Orfe also added, “Removing the engine from the water is the easy part. It hasn’t been determined if the locomotive can be refurbished. I think it’ll be there for a while.”

By now you’re probably saying that this is all very interesting but what’s the connection with us here in Beverly? Well, we feel that Harold Boothroyd probably made the last photograph of the #3666 ever taken before the accident just two months later that year. And he shot it here in Beverly right at the depot. Also, our own former member Charles Smith might have been on the train that night and died along with the engineer and fireman, had he not been late arriving at Lynn.

We hope you enjoyed this true tale of the rails!

Richard W. Symmes
Curator, WTC

Beverly Historical Society and Museum
117 Cabot Street,
Beverly, MA 01915-5107
978-922-1186
www.beverlyhistory.org

Train wreck in 1939?

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