Dive Con vs. Dive Master

During my last vacation I was offered a job on a dive boat when I return next summer. They said to just get the divemaster and I'd be ready to go. As would my wife. While neither of us would probably work as a divemaster on the mainland it did seem an enjoyable way for us to make a couple of bucks while doing what we enjoy.

Now our LDS offers only SSI and of course the Dive Con course. Would there be any reason for someone to do the PADI divemaster over the SSI Dive Con or vice versa?

A Divecon is a Divemaster combined with Assistant Instructor (basically.) If a Divecon is working with an SSI Instructor (who is present) then the DC is able to evaluate skills. Essentially they are the same thing (I am a Divecon with SSI.) I have zero experience with PADI.

I am a PADI Instructor so I should be pushing the PADI course, but with a DM rating I think it is a little diferent.

First call the boat that offered the job and see if they mind if you have an SSI Dive Con rating. I can't see how it would make a diference, they may just need a professional rating to carry you on their shop insurance policy. If they offered you work I hope they were already happy with your diving and people handling abilities.

Next, do you just want a card? Or do you want some experience? Call around and see how much time, pool sessions, and OW dives are required for you to complete your training.

I know this sounds counter-intuitive, but the longer and harder you have to work for your DM /Dive-Con rating, the more it will be worth to you in the end. You are going to have to pay someone to work for them (which is also crazy). The more time you can get in the water handling other divers, the more of an an asset you will be to your recreational boat - No Matter Who the Agency Is.

Sounds like a question for Rick.

It should be a problem unless SSI requires its Dive Cons to be associated with an SSI shop. They do so require this of their instructors. It's not a problem with SSI recognition, but may be a problem of SSI allowing yor cert to be active if the shop is not an SSI shop. I'm not sure, but it is something to research. I'll ask Rick for an answer.

A bit of an apples & oranges question... SSI leaders must have a shop affiliation to issue certifications. As a DiveCon you can certify divers in several specialties and in snorkeling. You can be a Scuba Rangers instructor, and conduct Scuba Skills Update classes, certifying successful completion in the diver's logbook. The shop needn't be on-site per se, so, for example, I could work for a boat and be affiliated with a shop back home (or in the boat's home port if there was one there) to get materials, process paperwork and be my quality assurance check. In exchange for being my affiliating shop I buy all SSI materials I may need through them and (hopefully) steer a few folks their way for equipment as well. The only reason a shop wouldn't want to be my sponsor (assuming I'm a competent DiveCon) is if there's another shop who's better situated - closer and more convenient - to do it.
Acting as a DM only is strictly an insurance/liability issue. If I'm going to have to provide my own insurance coverage (a wise move even if the boat says they have me covered under their umbrella) then I'd likely have to have a shop affiliation to get it from SSI, but I have a sneaking suspicion that I could buy it from most any DM insurer. (Any insurance agents out there?)
Shop affiliation has the primary function of quality assurance and dive leader assistance, with business fallout as a natural benefit to the sponsoring shop. It's a good deal all 'round.
In your specific case, just ask the shop owner if you can be an "off-site" DiveCon for them - You'll probably find that shop affiliation is just waiting for you right at home.
Rick

Thanks for the help so far.

My local SSI shop will only insure it's Divecons for their own shop. They claim that Divecons cannot carry outside insurance for work on dive boats. They claim that SSI doesn't allow that.

So if that's correct then each individual dive boat would have to carry insurance for the Divecon which would be a headache if one were to work for 2 or 3 different boats. In fact I would guess that the diveboats wouldn't be interested.

Since PADI divemasters can carry their own insurance unlike DiveCons I'm thinking that divemaster might be better for someone like myself.

Does it sound like I've got it right or does it sound like I've been BSed by my LDS????

Al,

Talk to the people that offered you the job to begin with. See if it makes a diference to them what professional rating you have.

I was not aware that Dive-Con's could only be covered under a shop policy. I am not an SSI guru. I could see how your LDS does not want you under thier policy only to have you working on a boat somewhere else. See if your potential employer can cover you with (whatever your professional rating) under their shop policy.

I would not recommend working in this field without some form of liability insurance to back you up. If you work anywhere in the states, or handle English speaking customers, liability insurance is a must.

I've never liked that aspect of SSI or NASDS. I personally believe independent instructors are more likely to do a better job than shop affiliated instructors. Others believe there's more quality control involved with a mandated affiliation. I've seen more pressure to pass poor or marginal students from shops than quality control.

I see both sides of the "store affiliation" debate. I am just finishing my DiveCon quals for a local SSI shop. Being from a cold water/ limited vis environment, the last thing that our instructors wish to do is to send someone not safe out with their C-Cards. So, while there is some pressure to pass students, they don't want to get sued (see where I am heading?) So, if I screw up or an instructor screws up, there doesn't have to be an injury or legal action. The LDS owner says "I don't have any classes/ dives for you to dm" and spreads the word to the other SSI shops in the area. It doesn't take long and the offending party is out of a job without anyone getting hurt (or should I say BEFORE the reputation of his shop is damaged as he has contracts to teach scuba for all the local colleges and universities).

Now, onto another side. I have no rush to certify instructor with SSI. Why is this? Why spend thousands of dollars in instructor certs to be guaranteed not to have a job locally? There are two (count 'em) SSI shops within any kind of workable area for me. They have hired their instructors. Seeing the limited number of instructor jobs for my certifying organization are already full, I will probably not ever try to become one. Maybe I would be a good one, maybe not, but this does keep down the number of certified instructors for them to watch as I am not alone in any of my thinking here.

I see the point about the pressure to pass students to sell gear with a shop. It also puts pressure on me to always reflect store standards (ie use store supplied gear) when I dive at my own expense. It is good gear, so I don't complain. But it would be annoying if I had preferences towards gear that the shop didn't carry. It is on the mark, but a long term minded instructor who owns the LDS in an area where everybody knows everybody won't stay in business long if he thinks about passing divers with safety issues will guarantee him sales. The first injury of a diver from this area would get back to the local paper and well..... (you have read the Gilboa posts). The customers would act as the quality control in this instance.

And Rick M., Al's statement is more to the point here. If I am not working with my LDS, I am not insured.... period. I have been informed that if I don't clear it with my LDS ahead of time, I don't even supervise a beach dive in 30 ft. maximum waters as a professional. And they may not like the risk and still say NO.

BTW, this is a back-handed favor, if some dive boat in the Caribbean discovers that I have a dive con card and asks me to "unofficially add" to their number of DM's by buddying with questionable divers, all that I have to say is "Sorry, not insured." And, then I smile as I take my camera and hunt down that blue parrotfish at 110 feet.

Al,

You must have gotten some bad info. I'm an SSI DiveCon and have separate insurance. There is a long list of all the additional insured that I have to identify. Several of them are dive boats that I work. Also the technical rider was no additional cost.

I have seen what your LDS was referring to and that is where the DiveCons and Instructors are carried on the shop's policy as part of their compensation. I don't like that approach because you are then totally tied to that shop.

The shop I'm with now has us get our own insurance and then we get compensated on a per class /trip basis. Since I DM for other Instructors and Agencies, having my own insurance is preferrable. I think this would also be beneficial to me if there were ever a a claim.
Dive Safe,
Larry