Lift capacity/head above water on single wing vs jacket

Just got back from holiday, this time with my new 18 pound oxycheq single wing. I have never used wings before, only jacket BCD's.
Tried it first in confined water, and needed 6kg weights...
On the first boat dive, I got a 15l steel, which almost led to disaster when I got in the water.:shocked2:....almost drowned because I had my chin to low in the water(some big waves..could not stop hyperventilating etc.).
Now, I changed Diving centre and dove the rest of my holiday with a standard BCD....
My question is: How high will a 40 Lb wing keep my head/chin above the water compared to a jacket?
At home, I've been using a Black Diamond, which have 50 lbs lift....but I guess 40 lbs will do for both coldwater and holiday diving in Egypt,Asia etc. Right or wrong? Am going 60 in a few years, and have no intention of drowning, escpecially not above the surface! Guess the 18 lbs will be used for alu tanks & shoredives.......Loved the feeling diving with harness & wing....

Divealpha,

That tank is fairly negatively buoyant. Were you wearing a wetsuit when you took it into open water? If not, then you've probably just found the bottom limit of wing lift that you would need... in other words, you couldn't be much more negatively buoyant without adding weights (I'm assuming now that you weren't wearing any).

If an 18lb wing was able to keep your head out of the water at all, then a 40 lb wing should be plenty for diving a similar configuration. You'll become more and more positively buoyant as you add insulation, so if you kept weighting the same you would use less and less wing lift.

Divealpha:

....almost drowned because I had my chin to low in the water(some big waves..could not stop hyperventilating etc.).

Click to expand...

Don't you dive with a regulator? Put it in your mouth!

Divealpha:

My question is: How high will a 40 Lb wing keep my head/chin above the water compared to a jacket?

Click to expand...

No wing will buoy you out of the water the way a vest-style BC will. Adding lift won't change that--fully inflating the wing in an effort to get your head out of water will just tend to tip you forward.

Divealpha:

Just got back from holiday, this time with my new 18 pound oxycheq single wing. I have never used wings before, only jacket BCD's.
Tried it first in confined water, and needed 6kg weights...
On the first boat dive, I got a 15l steel, which almost led to disaster when I got in the water.:shocked2:....almost drowned because I had my chin to low in the water(some big waves..could not stop hyperventilating etc.).
Now, I changed Diving centre and dove the rest of my holiday with a standard BCD....
My question is: How high will a 40 Lb wing keep my head/chin above the water compared to a jacket?
At home, I've been using a Black Diamond, which have 50 lbs lift....but I guess 40 lbs will do for both coldwater and holiday diving in Egypt,Asia etc. Right or wrong? Am going 60 in a few years, and have no intention of drowning, escpecially not above the surface! Guess the 18 lbs will be used for alu tanks & shoredives.......Loved the feeling diving with harness & wing....

Click to expand...

Required wing capacity is a function of the buoyancy of your exposure suit.

Comfort at the surface is much more a matter of proper weighting than lift capacity.

I'll make a few assumptions here. You were on holiday, I'll assume you were using a thin wetsuit, maybe a 3mm?

If so why would you need 6 kg / 13.2 lbs of ballast? Your reg is *another* ~2 lbs giving you over 15 lbs of things that don't float, i.e. ballast.

A 3mm suit on people of normal stature are typically 3-5 lbs positive, even 5 mm suit won't be 15 lbs positive.

You don't mention if you were using a back plate or not in addition to the 6 kg of ballast. If you were then you were even more over weighted.

Add a negative steel tank and you have even more un needed ballast.

The correct solution to being over weighted is not a larger wing. The correct approach is to determine how buoyant your suit is and then use the appropriate amount of ballast.

If you are correctly weighted for a 3mm suit and single cylinder a small wing is all you need for comfort at the surface.

Tobin

You may have been overweighted, but comfort at the surface is often left out of the wing calculation. A bigger wing will lift your head higher and make surface swim on your back more comfortable in big swells. It can't hurt to have a few extra pounds of lift.

I've been experimenting with an inflatable travel pillow for long surface swims on back, that I deflate and fold up before descending.

Adam

Hatul:

I've been experimenting with an inflatable travel pillow for long surface swims on back, that I deflate and fold up before descending.

Click to expand...

Just use your DSMB... makes a nice surface support for long swims.

Hatul:

You may have been overweighted, but comfort at the surface is often left out of the wing calculation. A bigger wing will lift your head higher and make surface swim on your back more comfortable in big swells. It can't hurt to have a few extra pounds of lift.

I've been experimenting with an inflatable travel pillow for long surface swims on back, that I deflate and fold up before descending.

Adam

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If the diver is properly weighted it requires very little wing lift to be comfortable at the surface. It should also be pointed out that any part of any BC that is *above* the water provides *no* lift, as it displaces no water. That makes rising high out of the water a matter of diminishing returns.

Getting the weighting right is what provides the greatest benefits.

Tobin

Kotik: Was wearing a 5mm shorty, and 6kg weights. Very salty water, first time I had to use 2 weights on my camera to get fairly neutral buoyancy on it..
Vladimir: Regulator in use, but could not stop hyperventilating, and then you build up CO...Ever tried getting out of that circle??
I need some deep breaths before I descend... not salt water from big breaking waves over my head
And, I have no problems finishing most of my dive with my mask full of water on 30-40m either... happened twice because my own mask broke, and no other seem to fit my face than the Crystal Vu....
I know a divemaster is concerned a guide, and each is diving on their own risk, but assume that a DM/(and instructor, prob, OWSI) with several hundred dives knew better than me...
It would have been easy to say : "You have to use our equipment, you cant dive with that", since I informed the center that this would be the first ever dive with the equipment(except the try/weight dive from shore on 2-3m depth).
I'm surely not the most fit person either, but I'm carrying my wifes rig in addition to my own, and it seems younger guys "puffs" more than me.

Divealpha:

Kotik: Was wearing a 5mm shorty, and 6kg weights. Very salty water, first time I had to use 2 weights on my camera to get fairly neutral buoyancy on it..
Vladimir: Regulator in use, but could not stop hyperventilating, and then you build up CO...Ever tried getting out of that circle??
I need some deep breaths before I descend... not salt water from big breaking waves over my head
And, I have no problems finishing most of my dive with my mask full of water on 30-40m either... happened twice because my own mask broke, and no other seem to fit my face than the Crystal Vu....
I know a divemaster is concerned a guide, and each is diving on their own risk, but assume that a DM/(and instructor, prob, OWSI) with several hundred dives knew better than me...
It would have been easy to say : "You have to use our equipment, you cant dive with that", since I informed the center that this would be the first ever dive with the equipment(except the try/weight dive from shore on 2-3m depth).
I'm surely not the most fit person either, but I'm carrying my wifes rig in addition to my own, and it seems younger guys "puffs" more than me.

Click to expand...

I am confused. Instead of switching to a jacket, why did you not try removing some of that weight? Removing 0 to 6 kg can make a HUGE difference.

Well, unfortunately, I'm not able to descend without 6kgs..but I agree that with a 15l steel I should have removed some. But, I'm not that experienced(70+dives, 1 with BP/W). I assumed the DM(with OWSI Certif.) should have known, and told me to remove some when he handed me the tank...
I found out in another dicussion on the forum, that DSS manufactures their 17lbs wing for 3mm shortys & AL80's. If I had known(after asking a great deal of Q on other forums, which said 18lbs was more than enough lift), I would have chosen a 30lbs.
I'm now waiting for my 40lbs wing for coldwater diving, and I'll bring both on the next tropical vacation(18lbs for shore- or calm sea boat dives).

With a 7mm full, I used 8kg to get down(but on some of the dives, I had some trouble descending, so I used 2kg extra on some dives). Yes, I may still be overweighted, but I prefer 1 kilo extra instead of having trouble...
And, concerning the change to BCD: Both the DM and the guy in the boat had no idea how to get our rigs off, so when both me & my wife(diving equal rigs)
finally got onboard, the rig was in several pieces...they tore the wing apart from the Travelplate & harness, so for further dives we would have needed new BP's...