Bay Islands advice for experienced divers

My teenage kids and I have been diving for a few years now and have just bought a plane ticket to Roatan for a 2 week vacation over the Christmas / New Years school break (outside of the whale shark peak season). We have experienced enough of a variety of dives by now to start forming an opinion on what types of dives we particularly enjoy, and what types of dives we would really like to experience in the near term. For this vacation, we are considering Roatan, Utila, Guanaja, and Cayos Cochinos as possible destinations (or a combination of two of those locations). I am hoping that someone could offer some advice on which island, which dive operation, and maybe even which dive sites would most likely offer us the experiences we're after.

A typical dive operation will boast on their website about practicing safe diving. Although I also subscribe to this approach, I have seen very different interpretations of what "safe" is. For example, in Cozumel safe meant that we came down to 182 ft maximum depth, registered a 15 minute mandatory decompression, and finished the 45 minute dive (multi-level) on our own air, with the dive master hauling a spare tank of nitrox with him just in case if needed. In Cozumel "safe" also meant that if I stopped for 5 minutes taking pictures of some critter and lost sight of the group, I knew that the dive master and the rest of the group would be waiting for me a short ways away down-current. In Dominican Republic, safe meant that if our computer and air allowed us to enjoy an 85 minute dive, we were not rushed out of the water to be back on the boat inside 60 minutes. In Egypt, safe meant that they classified certain dive sites by formal certification level but otherwise if I stopped to take a picture, the dive master didn't seem to care to wait - it was a trail ride, completely by the clock and distance from A to B had to be travelled inside of the allotted time. In San Diego CA safe meant that no dive master even entered the water (I imagine due to potential liability reasons) and divers were dropped off the boat on a wreck dive with no guide whatsoever in 3 ft visibility.

So, having said all of that, while I don't particularly want to charter a boat for the 3 of us, we're looking for a dive operation that will have enough boats to be able to match divers by skill level per boat, with small boats of no more than 6 divers. It would be nice if the dive operation's interpretation of "safe" was not measured by the clock, official certification limits (it was an eye-opener the first time when I entered deco dive and discovered that I was not in fact dead - despite the assurances by my PADI OW instructor that I would be), or insurance liability avoidance practices, but rather common sense, actual skill levels of the divers, equipment, and the like. We like deep dives from 70 to 200 ft and would very much enjoy shark encounters. Walls are of great interest to us, particularly if broken up by interesting coral formations. Wrecks we are not particularly into, unless we stumbled upon a pirate ship. As far as certifications go, I am a Master Scuba Diver and the kids are both Rescue Divers, with all 3 of Nitrox certified, so availability of Nitrox would be a plus.

Although we're not too picky with our accommodations, I am picky when it comes to safety and would like to know that my passport, wallet and laptop are safely tucked away in some safe on shore. Likewise, I will require access to the Internet every few days - work related. Power is essential to charge up batteries for the dive camera. In terms of other on-shore amenities, we would prefer to be away from any large cities and would prefer to experience a more laid back atmosphere. Presence of small restaurants and generally speaking the ability to safely experience local culture would be nice for something to do outside of the hotel.

Many thanks in advance for any advice and thank you for the time to read this what turned out to be a much lengthier post than what was originally intended

A lot of people recommend Coco View in Roatan but their boats carry a lot of divers. I personally like barefoot cay. Small boats, good food and very safe dive shop. They will not let you dive to 200 ft though. You are not equipped or trained to dive that deep! Recreational limits apply. They have two Divemasters with every group and it is a lead, follow dive. Great walls and reefs.

You can't beat Cocoview for their dive operation, but it wouldn't be on the top of my list as a teenager. No beach, pool, town or shopping. Just my perspective, but a dive guide is a guide not a safety officer. You can dive the walls on Cozumel from 30 down to 200. I and my wife ended up at 115 on one of our first ocean dives in Cozumel and it wasn't a good feeling as neither of us managed our air very well back then. Since then we have followed the guides briefings and planned our dives to match our comfort level usually 70 feet max and don't get concerned about following the rest of the group down over 100' unless we plan the dive to see something down there. I have my own SMB and we surface when our air dictates. The only dive I'm aware of on Coz that requires you to go deep is Devils Throat due to the entrance and exit and operators typically won't take you there without observing your skills on other dives.

Compared to Cozumel the dives on the South side of Roatan are safer. There is little current and the boat is moored. The dives typically begin in the shallows under the boat and then off onto the wall from anywhere 40-80 feet. The dives end by making your way back on top of the reef to return to the boat. The top of the reef is typically 25-35 feet so it serves as a nice long safety stop at the end of the dive. The dives at Cocoview add another natural level of safety because your 2nd drop off dive will come up through the front yard which is a long swim in 15-10' of water depending on the tide. The boats at Cocoview are larger and and there will be groups up to 10 when the resort is full, but I'll take them over a six pack any day. The space, entry and middle well for return in rough waters make them far preferable to a small boat in my book. They also have far superior accommodations for storing extra gear and cameras.

Cocoview will also require all of you to complete a check out dive in the front yard before you can get on the boat.

Thank you for the comments on the Roatan dive operations. Since my flight is to and from Roatan, we will definitely spend a few days there. I have read a lot of positive things about Utila and the marine national park at Cayos Cochinos so I am considering spending a week at one of those destinations as well. If given the choice of the two, which should I pick? I'd love to hear from someone who has been to both and could offer a comparison between the two. Are there any tucked-away gem dive operations that offer a more personalized experience or should we stay with resort operations?

You pose many goals and hurdles, some of which may not be easily compatible with dive operations on Roatan.

Zeeb:

.... which dive operation, and maybe even which dive sites would most likely offer us the experiences we're after....

We like deep dives from 70 to 200 ft and would very much enjoy shark encounters. Walls are of great interest to us, particularly if broken up by interesting coral formations. Wrecks we are not particularly into, unless we stumbled upon a pirate ship.

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Dive operations, due to the shape of the island, are tied to very localized dive sites. Walls surround the entire island. On the North and West, they are darker and deeper, have more larger specimens of common Caribbean fish, and have more variation in terms of shapes. On the South side, they are shallower and have much more variety and quantity of macro life.

Although you eschew wrecks, they do provide a further comparison in available diving. South side has two commonly visited wrecks that lie intact in depths of 35-65fsw. The North/West also has two, but due to surge action, they lie at 95-115fsw in tatters. This should describe the common depths to be expected as well as the character of the environment shaped by eons of weather. Wrecks are placed for a very specific reason- critters are attracted by structure. Get past the pure visual experience of seeing a ship parked underwater... then you begin to see all the life that it hosts. Wrecks are there for a reason- other than just looking at a shape, which takes some getting past.

Your need for internet is problematic once you reach the bay Islands, most certainly Cayos Cochinos. Further, I am not sure if there really is an easy or cost effective way to transfer between the islands during a two week stay. In example, most visitor route through the mainland via a circuitous route to arrive at Cayos Cochinos. Occasional dive visits are made from Roatan, but an actual transfer would be an arrangement at a considerable fee- the same with Guanaja to a lesser extent. Utila would be a much simpler transfer but still no easy move.

To make a comparison between Utila and Cayos would be like night and day. Which do you prefer? To compare by diving alone would be very subjective, but the easy part is topside. Utila is a built up pedestrian town, described by most as dusty concrete. Cayos is still one of the few reachable remote destinations in the Caribbean, private generators provide the electricity... if that tells you something. Utila has diversions, Cayos has quiet.

Your planned timing of travel would likely preclude Cocoview as a choice. Their dive boats are quite spacious 55', but if you have been on them, they are not packed with divers. The diving they offer is also not your depth, or at least where there would be very little worth seeing that deep, most of their divers max out at 65fsw and concentrate on "not sharks". If a teenager wanted other diversions, as Browntrout says, CCV would be a nightmare. I would say that CCV is the safest place on the island to drop your passport and Rolex on a table and return to find it 6 hours later.

In terms of other on-shore amenities, we would prefer to be away from any large cities and would prefer to experience a more laid back atmosphere. Presence of small restaurants and generally speaking the ability to safely experience local culture would be nice for something to do outside of the hotel.

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There are really no large cities that would intrude on your visit to Roatan. One resort as mentioned (Barefoot), it's a well regarded operation but it is kerplunk in the middle of the busiest commercial fishing harbor on Roatan. Kinda' bright and a bit noisy. Small restaurants are available on the West End where there are bunches of good day dive ops. There is a "local culture", but it is nothing to do with history or heredity. The stuff that most visitors recognize is again West End and has more of a island bar attitude mixed with imported reggae music. Not much "culture" in the classical sense. Safety can be purchased by staying within the patrolled areas (as mentioned above, CCV and some others), or you can be a vigilant and smart traveller, and go on a well travelled but less protected path. In many places, property crimes are rife, but personal crimes only come by invitation. Be smart, assuming your sons are as well.

Do some more reading here on SCUBA related travel options on Roatan. You're not going to find an valid advice along these lines on Trip Advisor, they don't think like you are. I think your questions, although very valid and well phrased, are in the realm of those very contrary points that makes the Bay Islands so unique. There are no simple and easy answers that fit your parameters.

I would suggest that instead of searching out diving that fits descriptions of desired reef structure and whatever else including being so specific as to list deep diving- this might be the wrong way to approach selecting a dive destination. Much like nitrox, in diving we are encouraged to use appropriate tools for the dive at hand. True enough, on Roatan, at many operations you'll likely find good reason to use nitrox, but in variety there is learning. I have spent entire weeks on an island and never ventured below 40', I have spent similar trips always breaking the 150' mark on every dive. Plan your dive to see what the site is known for, not for what you know. Expand and grow.

Go, explore, have fun. You'll be back. Just remember- just because you have seen one side or portion of Roatan or the Bay Islands... in no way have you seen it all. Diversity is a few yards away.

Listen to doc. He knows. Separately, if sharks are your thing, the Bay Islands are not. We've got all the deep diving you want to do, but what's the point? If you want sharks, really sharks, hit the cocoa or the Galapagos. But with only a few years diving I'd suggest getting some more dives under your belt. Both of those destinations are serious diving and you need to know what you are about. The Bahamas have a couple of good shark operators. Utila is all about shallow and slow. Spend 1:40 on a tank rather than 50 and see what you see.

consider utila cays diving located on pigeon cay (southwestern utila). they have a small dive boat and generally only take out 6-8 divers and will certainly tailor their dives to guest requests. they have a bare bones hotel ($10 a night) on pigeon cay but there are also some beautiful rentals in the area around treasure beach (on mainland utila opposite the cays) and utila cays diving will pick you up from the treasure beach dock.

Zeeb:

My teenage kids and I have been diving for a few years now and have just bought a plane ticket to Roatan for a 2 week vacation over the Christmas / New Years school break (outside of the whale shark peak season). We have experienced enough of a variety of dives by now to start forming an opinion on what types of dives we particularly enjoy, and what types of dives we would really like to experience in the near term. For this vacation, we are considering Roatan, Utila, Guanaja, and Cayos Cochinos as possible destinations (or a combination of two of those locations). I am hoping that someone could offer some advice on which island, which dive operation, and maybe even which dive sites would most likely offer us the experiences we're after.

A typical dive operation will boast on their website about practicing safe diving. Although I also subscribe to this approach, I have seen very different interpretations of what "safe" is. For example, in Cozumel safe meant that we came down to 182 ft maximum depth, registered a 15 minute mandatory decompression, and finished the 45 minute dive (multi-level) on our own air, with the dive master hauling a spare tank of nitrox with him just in case if needed. In Cozumel "safe" also meant that if I stopped for 5 minutes taking pictures of some critter and lost sight of the group, I knew that the dive master and the rest of the group would be waiting for me a short ways away down-current. In Dominican Republic, safe meant that if our computer and air allowed us to enjoy an 85 minute dive, we were not rushed out of the water to be back on the boat inside 60 minutes. In Egypt, safe meant that they classified certain dive sites by formal certification level but otherwise if I stopped to take a picture, the dive master didn't seem to care to wait - it was a trail ride, completely by the clock and distance from A to B had to be travelled inside of the allotted time. In San Diego CA safe meant that no dive master even entered the water (I imagine due to potential liability reasons) and divers were dropped off the boat on a wreck dive with no guide whatsoever in 3 ft visibility.

So, having said all of that, while I don't particularly want to charter a boat for the 3 of us, we're looking for a dive operation that will have enough boats to be able to match divers by skill level per boat, with small boats of no more than 6 divers. It would be nice if the dive operation's interpretation of "safe" was not measured by the clock, official certification limits (it was an eye-opener the first time when I entered deco dive and discovered that I was not in fact dead - despite the assurances by my PADI OW instructor that I would be), or insurance liability avoidance practices, but rather common sense, actual skill levels of the divers, equipment, and the like. We like deep dives from 70 to 200 ft and would very much enjoy shark encounters. Walls are of great interest to us, particularly if broken up by interesting coral formations. Wrecks we are not particularly into, unless we stumbled upon a pirate ship. As far as certifications go, I am a Master Scuba Diver and the kids are both Rescue Divers, with all 3 of Nitrox certified, so availability of Nitrox would be a plus.

Although we're not too picky with our accommodations, I am picky when it comes to safety and would like to know that my passport, wallet and laptop are safely tucked away in some safe on shore. Likewise, I will require access to the Internet every few days - work related. Power is essential to charge up batteries for the dive camera. In terms of other on-shore amenities, we would prefer to be away from any large cities and would prefer to experience a more laid back atmosphere. Presence of small restaurants and generally speaking the ability to safely experience local culture would be nice for something to do outside of the hotel.

Many thanks in advance for any advice and thank you for the time to read this what turned out to be a much lengthier post than what was originally intended

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Okay, I think you got some good advice already so, now I want to know who did you dive with in Cozumel that took you on an unplanned 182ft deco??? Names please. How did that dive come about, in 15 years of diving there, I've never heard of such a thing.

Mike:

Okay, I think you got some good advice already so, now I want to know who did you dive with in Cozumel that took you on an unplanned 182ft deco??? Names please. How did that dive come about, in 15 years of diving there, I've never heard of such a thing.

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I certainly did, and thank you to all who provided such fantastic advice.

Now re: my Cozumel dive experience. On our first dive of the trip, we were put on a boat with a mix of divers with varying degree of experience and visited one of the shallower reefs. This was our checkout dive. On subsequent dives we got parked on a different boat with a dive master who normally dives the deeper reefs on the south-east of the island. His taking of a spare nitrox tank along was not for the purpose to consume the gas as part of the dive plan but rather as an additional safety factor - he always takes a spare tank with him when going on 100+ ft dives.

We dive on Suunto computers which are ridiculously conservative and it is virtually impossible for us to finish a Punta Sur dive without going into deco while other divers in the group still have NDL time left. This put us in the mind-set that with the computers we have and the dives we plan on doing, our computers would register most of these dives as deco dives. This was both good and bad. Bad from the perspective that the NDL limit became somewhat smudged - it became obvious that the NDL, in the strict sense of a hard set limit wasn't all that hard set, and that it varied from one computer to the next, with ours erring on the very conservative side. Good from the perspective that we started to plan our dives and monitor air supply with the conscious understanding that we need to reserve a certain amount of gas for a deco stop.

On the boat, the dives were all planned as non-deco dives, with max depth of 135 ft. However, as someone pointed out earlier in this thread, dive masters are guides, not enforcement officers. On one of the dives to Santa Rosa wall we spotted a large turtle amongst very intricate reef formations below us and wanted to check it out. At that point, the dive plan was changed consciously (and - mea culpa - without communicating it with the divemaster who was drifting ahead of us, and used to my frequent albeit minor deviations from the dive course, and many frequent stops as precipitated by photo shoot opportunities). We have checked our current stats and air remaining and decided to make the descent, then forego drifting along the edge of the wall and instead finish the dive as a multi-level dive in shallower depths.

So... was it planned on the boat? No. Did we dive without a plan? No. The plan was changed "mid-flight". Is the dive operation culpable for allowing us to go this deep? Absolutely not. Should they be applauded for taking spare gas on a deep dive? Absolutely yes.

Was I right in changing the plan while at 130 ft? No. I've learned some lessons from this. First, the realization that the divemaster has spare gas as an additional safety played a big role in making this decision. Although we did execute the dive in such a way that we did not need to use it, I have nevertheless relied on its availability for safety rather than being entirely self-reliant including provision for safety margin (and I do like to be self-reliant, always carrying a small "bail-out" spare air tank with me since I stop frequently to take photos and get separated from the group). Second, I made this decision while probably already under the influence of nitrogen narcosis so mind would not have been thinking as clearly as it would have been on the boat.

So, in other words, no fault on the part of the dive outfit, and I've already analyzed my actions and beaten myself for it plenty. It was a good learning experience to have.

Check out my videos from CoCoView Resort this past summer: https://vimeo.com/album/2443620
This will give you some ideas what CCV is all about.

here is the Front Yard, shore diving in front of resort:
[vimeo]70004682[/vimeo]

Do the boats look crowded? Are you freaking kidding, RickyF?

No, not a fancy place. It has no TV or crazy entertainment. Everyone is there to dive or sit in sun or snorkel, nothing much else to do. We love it.

My trip report: http://www.rnrscuba.net/2013_Roatan/2013CoCoView_TripReport.html

If you want to go there, be aware it is VERY popular and being only 23 rooms, it books up months in advance. You would want to check with them to see if there are any rooms over the holidays. They might be full already.

And there is no SCUBA POLICE, so dive 24/7 is free. Grab a tank and walk in the water.