How to stop a panicked diver from bolting?

[Cave Diver]

When a diver panics and bolts to the surface, should their buddy attempt to stop the ascent and if so, what methods are afforded them to do so?

The quotes below are an offshoot of the discussion occurring here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...0-catalina-diver-died-today-w-instructor.html

There's a lot we don't know. Almost everyone has used the word "panic" in evaluating this incident. To me, panic suggests an irrational and uncontrolled response. Just because someone did something that would be harmful doesn't automatically mean that it was done out of panic.

When it comes to slowing a diver's ascent, it's not like you're carrying a spare anchor that you can attach to them. Assuming proper weighting on the part of both diver and instructor, what can you do beside trying to gain control of the runaway diver's BC valves while managing your own? At this location, might you grab the chain with one hand and the diver with the other? You can try to get in a position to communicate and get the diver to voluntarily slow the ascent. Without cooperation, the available negative bouyancy from even fully deflated BCs decreases as you approach the surface making it that much harder to slow the diver, especially in thicker wetsuits. So, what's the textbook procedure for dealing with a situation like this?

I'd like to pull the discussion back to a series of questions posed by bsee65 that have gone unanswered despite numerous actively-posting instructors viewing this thread. I'm not sure if the questions were just overlooked...or if some instructors feel that participation in an open forum such as this could be perceived as engaging in "uninformed speculation" and perhaps criticizing the actions of another instructor. I hope that the questions were simply overlooked.

For the scuba instructors out there:

• What is taught during instructor training with respect to the recommended procedure for positioning oneself relative to students on descent/ascent?
• Is a buoy line recommended (or required) to aid ascent/descent for class dives?
• Given the allowable instructor-to-student ratio, how can instructors be expected to help head-off these kinds of uncontrolled ascents? (In this incident, the instructor appears to have been in very close proximity to the student diver. This might not be possible with more students to watch over.)

I want to be clear that I am making no speculations as to what actually occurred in this particular dive accident. And I ask these questions not to imply any wrongdoing on the part of the instructor involved.

I can see benefits to using a buoy line as a visual reference and to halt/slow an uncontrolled ascent in the case that a student loses a weight belt, for instance. I can see the benefit of having the instructor and student descend at the same level, whenever possible, so that any buoyancy issues can be addressed quickly. I could also imagine a recommendation to be positioned to allow easy access to the student's power inflater and/or dump valve. Furthermore, I think we can all agree that if a student really wants to ascend to the surface it might not be possible for the instructor to prevent it.

FWIW, I think it was a good decision on the part of the instructor in this incident to utilize the buoy chain for the descent.

Personally, I think your questions are valid ones but should be placed in a separate thread rather than discussed here. Of course I'll leave it to the mods to make that decision. If broken off into a separate thread I'll be interested in following the discussion.

 

[SolarStorm]

I thought that is what the spear gun was for

Seriously a very good question!

Actually just looked my BC's and it probably hard, but there all sorts of dump valves with little pull knobs. I am thinking that would be the best bet?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

It depends on the circumstances. If using a line it is possible to grab them and the line and try to hold on. I have seen other instructors overweight themselves by a few pounds in anticipation of such and event. Personally what this tells me is that they did not do their job in the pool and insure that the diver in question was ready for OW. You will also see them overweight students as well so that if one does try to bolt they have a chance to slow them down. I know you asked about what can a buddy do and the sad answer is not much. Except to do their own safe ascent and keep an eye on the diver. That way they will be able to render assistance instead of being the second victim. But again the potential is there for a great many divers to panic for one reason or another. The best way to prevent it is to make sure they have the training in the beginning to not panic when something happens.

 

[SailNaked]

I think I remember an in depth discussion of this before, but my .02psi would be that the answer depends, If it is a new diver you are in front of them and have options then as long as they have their reg in their mouth and are using it then just hold them down and hope they do not panic further.
I think most divers that are bolting for the surface believe they have to, to survive and will panic further if you try to slow them down. if they are not using their regulator then prayer is probably the best option. trying to stuff a regulator in the mouth of a panicked diver and hoping they have the frame of mind to clear it and breath it is asking a lot.
depends on the depth if you are at 70 ft, and near the end of your dive and your buddy bolts you can assume he may have problems on the surface and it may be a good idea to slow him up.
however if he does not have air, you can not give him air, and he is bolting then start remembering your first aid and take the time you need to be on the surface able to provide it.

 

[DennisS]

They're heading for air, probably near panic, and may have just expelled all their air because they don't want to get an embolism. They are already on the way up with a lead on me. IF I could catch them, I don't think grabbing their leg and working my way up to give them a regulator is a good idea. They want to get to the surface in a bad way and will fight to get there.

 

[walke121]

I believe your responsibility as a buddy ends when you put your self in danger to try to rescue/help another diver. I would do everything in my power to help rescue a fellow diver but only if I could do so safely. 1 injured/dead diver is better than 2. When it boils down to it you and you alone are responsible for your wellbeing and safety while diving.

 

[ohmdiver]

I am not an instructor, but that is another story, from my simple diver perspective, I would answer the following, from my POV...

What is taught during instructor training with respect to the recommended procedure for positioning oneself relative to students on descent/ascent?

I do alot of "Tow the Flag" stuff for a few instructors for my LDS. What I have witnessed is that the instructor will be within arms reach of a student doing an Emergency Controlled accent, similar when a pair of students are doing a air sharing drill.

Is a buoy line recommended (or required) to aid ascent/descent for class dives?

When one is availible I have seen it used...sometimes only for refrence...might be the Instructor's choice....

Given the allowable instructor-to-student ratio, how can instructors be expected to help head-off these kinds of uncontrolled ascents? (In this incident, the instructor appears to have been in very close proximity to the student diver. This might not be possible with more students to watch over.)

We use Safety Divers on every training dive, so that if there is an issue the safety diver can keep an eye on the rest of the students. In most cases that I have been involved with, we are 4 students, 1 Instructor (sometimes more) 1 safety diver, and usually more..

In the instant or two were we had an issue the safety divers "herds" the students and keeps them together and perferably still. The safety diver then watches for a signal from the instructor. More often than not the instructor return with the wayward student, but if one student bails, we bring them all back to the surface...of course this is our procedure for Basic Open water classes so much is done above 40'

just my 2 psi...

Additionally, one victim is bad enough, 2 would be worse...(tough love??)

 

[AfterDark]

I suppose a little fancy knife work on the divers BC would slow em down, if there's time.

 

[ohmdiver]

okay, I keep think of this, my 1st answer from my POV, refers to students becuase the questions tended to take one that way. An "experianced" diver might be a completely diffrent approach. I was tuaght during my Stress & Rescue course, to approach a diver if the body langue or other indictators make you believe they are stressing...stay out side of thier reach, a panicked diver may grab you and in effect keep you from being albe to help them or youself.

1. Approach
2. Make Eye contact
3. Try to communicate

If they still bolt there is not much you can do, holding them down my only make the sutituation worse. Follow them up at the appropriate rate, keeping an eye on them as much as possible...when you surface stay way so that they can't grab you, self preservatiojn at the cost of your life or limb is an acceptable trade off to someone who is really panicked. Get thier attention and try to calm them down, if they are conscience. Then make your way to the boat of shore...if they will not calm down , I like dropping down and under them to grab the tank valve so thay can not get a hand on me, but I have control...


okay that was 2 more psi....

 

[DandyDon]

The discussion on the A&I thread seemed to be asking what should an Instructor do?
1: For a Resort class, it should be one on one, and the Inst should be prepared to grab control immediately, IMO;
2: For an OW class, seems like my Inst had several in our group, with one or two DMs assisting - and he watched us very closely as we descended to kneel on the bottom so that he could watch for bolters and grab them before they got ahead, with DMs backing up on the others;
3: For an AOW course, the student should know better well before the class. If it still happens, follow prudently to render aid, but it's beyond babysitting time.

For my buddy, same: the student should know better well before the class. If it still happens, follow prudently to render aid, but it's beyond babysitting time.

Actually just looked my BC's and it probably hard, but there all sorts of dump valves with little pull knobs. I am thinking that would be the best bet?

For controling your ascent, or another?

I suppose a little fancy knife work on the divers BC would slow em down, if there's time.

I suppose you meant that as rubish?