Catalina Diver died today w/ Instructor

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

I didn't read the "diving dry" column, but I did note that Dr. Bill had initially presented that the instructor checked the student's gauge before the student bolted. My first thought when reading that was that when someone signals OOA, I would donate first and investigate second. The second post gave a different perspective on that part of the incident.

It would seem that, if there were no concerns for legal involvement, Dr, Bill would be in a position to get and provide a full and thorough description of the events from the instructor's perspective. That account wouldn't necessarily represent the facts of the case, but it would get a lot closer than some of the speculation that was spawned. Even when the "facts" are almost at your fingertips, they have a way of remaining just out of reach.

Personally, I wonder what attempts at communication were made from 65fsw to 25fsw. Was the instructor hanging onto the victim's ankle, or was there more to trying to slow the ascent?
 
The sense I got from my first reading of the posts that were referenced in Dr Bill's article, was that people were saying that the instructor exceeded depth standards. It was only on re-reading the posts and really looking at them that I appreciated the qualifying language.

BTW: It is probable that absent an Ouija Board we will never know why the diver first bolted. From what I recall of the various posts, there is no indication of a mask flood or of inhaling water.
 
I take no offense at the points raised. Indeed the speculations made were corrected quickly. However, the fact that they were made suffices to make them valid examples for my column IMHO. My raising them was not intended to discredit anyone, just to illustrate that speculation can be well off base. The fact that they were corrected, and quickly, IS one of the positives in a discussion format.

As for the issue of checking the SPG vs donating a reg to the student, I wish I could remember the specific language stated by the instructor. I cannot clarify that myself.
 
I take no offense at the points raised. Indeed the speculations made were corrected quickly. However, the fact that they were made suffices to make them valid examples for my column IMHO. My raising them was not intended to discredit anyone, just to illustrate that speculation can be well off base. The fact that they were corrected, and quickly, IS one of the positives in a discussion format.
@drbill: I'm going to be blunt here. There was nothing to correct in my posts regarding the incident. The qualifying language was clear.

The posts on which you base your examples in the article do not illustrate your point at all. You misrepresented what was actually written and made no mention of the qualifying language that was used.

The way I see it, what you did was akin to someone referencing your post of the facts of the incident in the following way:

"Someone reported that when the diver gave the OOA signal, the instructor checked the diver's gauge without offering an alternative air source first. This is an example of a well-intentioned instructor who failed to follow procedure. The incident resulted in tragedy. Instructors should follow their training in order to prevent dive accidents."

Here's what you had actually written:
My understanding of the events based on my conversations with the instructor and the deceased diver's BF are as follows:

1. The deceased diver had some diving experience prior to taking the AOW course. She and her BF planned to take dive trips to Honduras and the Caymans in the near future and it is my understanding that she was trying to improve her skills level.

2. The instructor and diver descended along the south boundary buoy (which reaches a depth just under 100 ft). They were on the chain when the initial problems began at a depth of approximately 60 ft.

3. The instructor, who was slightly below the student, rose to her level and was given the OOA signal by the student. The instructor checked the SPG and she had plenty of air in her tank. Something may have caused her to believe she couldn't get air at this point (it is mere speculation to suggest a heart attack at this point although it is a possibility... we'll have to wait for the autopsy to determine whether this might have triggered difficult breathing).

4. The student panicked and began ascending whereupon the instructor, at the risk of her own life, grabbed onto the student and tried to slow the descent. She came to the surface shortly after the student surfaced.

5. The harbor patrol and Baywatch responded quickly since the harbor patrolman (also a friend of mine) was in the fairway near the dive park and immediately sensed something wasn't right.

Until the instructor wishes to comment herself, that is my recollection of the situation. The instructor was devastated by this and I hope we will all respect her need for privacy at this point. IMHO, she is a very competent SCUBA professional who deeply cares for her students.

I can see how you might find such a statement hurtful. I can see how the instructor might find such a statement hurtful...even more so if that is not how things happened at all. The statement is a misrepresentation of what you originally posted. It contains none of the qualifying language that you had included with the post, e.g., you were not present during the incident, this is your recollection of the sequence of events as related to you by the instructor, other critical info may have been left out, facts/conclusions from the medical investigation are still pending, etc.

I might add that if someone had made such a statement, then you might not be so willing to participate in future discussions regarding dive accidents at Catalina. This would be a real shame, since you are such an important contributor to these forums.
 
Last edited:
Let me say that I have had a number of people who know and have worked with this instructor, some for a number of years, PM or e-mail me to say they were very upset at the speculation in this thread and would like to do something but felt they couldn't.

Of course threads about incidents involving people we actually know can cause us to get even more defensive about mis-statements. No doubt that is a factor here.

However, I do wish the speculation would stop. It may be that the only true lesson we can learn from this is the obvious one... a diver should not panic under such situations. Will we know why the student did? Probably not.

I've "spoken" with instructors who have either lost students or been in the water when such incidents occurred. They seem to be the ones best suited to understand the hurt speculation in such cases can cause.

I do not mean to point to any specific member as to the issues I cited. When I wrote the article, I did not look back at the thread to see who wrote what. However, I stand by the fact that speculation can be hurtful and counter productive.
 
Speculation can be hurtful and counter-productive. The facts can also be quite hurtful, but shading the facts to protect someone can be counter-productive. Speculation can also be beneficial and get us closer to a truth when facts are lacking, or extend the amount of learning that can be gleaned from a scenario. Informed speculation and questions on the part of those wishing to learn are the core of this board.

If anyone chooses to be offended by speculation, that's their prerogative. If they choose to believe speculation is fact, the same. Read the whole thread. Understand who is an insider to an incident, and who is speculating. Draw your conclusions accordingly. I can't remember being confused about what is fact and what is theory in any thread. Certainly, there were plenty of believable and reasonable theories that were later discounted, but I never confused likely speculation with fact. You can't let the opinion of some anonymous forum poster who may just be looking to stir the pot get you down. Of course, I've never been the subject of one of these threads, and being the subject can skew your perspective.

In the year or so I have been participating here, I find it rare that anyone has speculated with the intent to be hurtful as a primary motivation. In fact, I can't think of one. There have been quite a few contentious and aggressive posts, often by people too close to an incident or in defense of a challenged position. The only time that speculation proves counter-productive, IMO, is when someone comes in and blindly accepts prior misguided speculation as fact and then builds on top of it. It goes along with the age-old saying that there are no bad questions. It would be healthy to treat every theory posted here as a question in spite of how it might be phrased.

drbill, if I were a member of the victim's family, I might find your post hurtful. Based upon what known fact are you stating that the diver panicked? All I believe we know for fact is that she began a rapid ascent that the instructor was able to slow for some part of the way up. At some point, she gave an OOA signal and then continued to the surface at an even more rapid rate that the instructor couldn't prevent. Any attribution of motivation is nothing more than speculation. Well-informed and likely based upon an analysis of the diver's behavior, but speculation none the less.

As far as I can tell, the reporter used incorrect words to initially describe this incident. That left it ambiguous as to what course and which dive of the course the victim was participating in. That opened the door to asking questions. The way I read the initial story, I assumed it was the first dive of AOW. If I had read further to see that it was a Sunday, I would have assumed it was the first dive of the day in AOW, but that multiple dives had been completed on Saturday.

At this point in the thread, I believe we have that sorted out. It was an AOW class and a dive on day 2. The diver and the instructor were among a group descending on a chain in the vicinity of 60-65 fsw when something happened that caused the victim to want to ascend. We don't know what that was, how quickly the victim reversed course, or if any signals were given at that point. We do know that the instructor was aware of the reversal, and that the ascent was rapid enough that the she considered it unsafe and tried to slow it. We don't know how the instructor tried to slow the ascent or if any communication occurred on the way up. We also don't know how long they took to go from depth to the point where the instructor lost contact with the victim. We were told that, at some depth between 15 and 25 fsw, an OOA signal was given and the victim separated from the instructor and broke for the surface. Under the circumstances, we can assume an as-fast-as-possible ascent the rest of the way to the surface on the part of the victim. We don't know if the ascent had been slowed to the point of control or what other communication there was prior to the point where the victim gained separation. We know that the instructor slowed her ascent to more safely arrive at the surface some time after the victim. We don't know how long that delay was. We also don't know the details of any initial treatment that was attempted to save the victim on the way to the chamber.

There's a lot we don't know. Almost everyone has used the word "panic" in evaluating this incident. To me, panic suggests an irrational and uncontrolled response. Just because someone did something that would be harmful doesn't automatically mean that it was done out of panic.

When it comes to slowing a diver's ascent, it's not like you're carrying a spare anchor that you can attach to them. Assuming proper weighting on the part of both diver and instructor, what can you do beside trying to gain control of the runaway diver's BC valves while managing your own? At this location, might you grab the chain with one hand and the diver with the other? You can try to get in a position to communicate and get the diver to voluntarily slow the ascent. Without cooperation, the available negative bouyancy from even fully deflated BCs decreases as you approach the surface making it that much harder to slow the diver, especially in thicker wetsuits. So, what's the textbook procedure for dealing with a situation like this?
 
There's a lot we don't know. Almost everyone has used the word "panic" in evaluating this incident. To me, panic suggests an irrational and uncontrolled response. Just because someone did something that would be harmful doesn't automatically mean that it was done out of panic.

Given it appears the diver suffered a barotrauma and the diver ascended without blowing bubbles, this suggests the victim held their breath.

Free ascent in itself is not the issue, the issue is free ascent without blowing bubbles would indicate panic or failure to comprehend the materials and lessons taught in training. Assuming no panic and a complete understanding of all scuba training material and exercises, what would you call a decision to perform an activity which would likely cause serious injury or death?
 
Last edited:
Given it appears the diver suffered a barotrauma and the diver ascended without blowing bubbles, this suggests the victim held their breath.

Free ascent in itself is not the issue, the issue is free ascent without blowing bubbles would indicate panic or a failure to comprehend the materials and lessons taught in training.

The "or" there was missing from every other post. Speculating, let's say a diver under water felt they were having a medical issue that required immediate attention. If they were single-mindedly attempting to get to that medical attention and "forgot" to breathe, that wouldn't necessarily be panic. It could be a mistake and disregard for training, but not necessarily a wide-eyed, temporary-insanity panic. A diver might call that excessive task loading. Ever been in so much pain that you couldn't breathe for a short time?

In any case, my point was simply that while highly likely based upon the circumstances described, I don't believe we have any evidence in this thread that proves panic as the reason the victim began her ascent.
 
If I remember correctly based on what I heard the day of the incident, panic is how it was described by those in the water with the student. I was with her BF after the incident and he did not contradict that. I'm not sure how else you can "justify" a breath holding ascent of this nature except as panic. I have done emergency ascents from depths as much as 75 ft with little residual air in my lungs. Had I panicked, I'd be dead.

NO ONE has a RIGHT to any of the facts in this incident (including the instructor's identity) or any other with the exception of those in the appropriate positions actually involved in assessing what happened. Of course we ALL (myself included) want to know what the facts are so we can make sense of this and incorporate any lessons in our own practices.

What caused the apparent panic could have been a number of things. We may never know them because the only one who could answer that question directly is no longer with us.

I frequent a number of different SCUBA-related boards. Some are talking about this incident, or actually the speculation in it. I love ScubaBoard and accept the limits imposed by its huge membership. I defend the appropriateness of what I call "informed speculation." However, I still decry that which is simply speculation without basis... even though it is quickly corrected by the discussion nature of these threads.
 
Unfortunately perception will shape how posts are regarded by their individual readers. As a participant in this discussion and also having received information directly (immediately after the incident) from some who were there, including the victims boyfriend, I know I probably read things differently than someone that is just reading the posts. I was confused by how some people came to the conclusions they did based on what had been stated.

I appreciate Dr. Bill's sensitivity for the instructor. I saw the pain in her face because of this event, and would not want to add to that in any way. That said, I did not read much negativity into the posts. Other than thinking "it doesn't say that" or "where did that come from?" regarding the information about the accident, I didn't see anything derogatory toward the instructor other than possible standards violation of a basic open water class. That was not the case and was corrected very quickly. Unlike many other S&I posts where I read about how the instructor should have done this or not done that, this one seemed to stay on track and not have any finger pointing. As should be, some questions were brought up and I think some good information was exchanged, so that perhaps this incident will serve some purpose.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom