Here's the regulator real deal guys and gals

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rainreg

Garlic Breath
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Location
Orlando, Florida
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I'm a Fish!
Well Guys I have waited awhile to see what yous guys would say now here is the real deal on regs.

First Scuba regulators by today’s standards are all adequate regulators but there are a few items, which separate the exceptional from the average.

Performance - the regulators performance in both ambient and cold water

Performance - based on gas media (air, nitrox, tri mix, heliox) these gases all have different properties and well tend to show better work of breathing using a lighter gas no matter what type of regulator, point a Sherwood brut or conshelf 14 would seem to be superior breathing regulators using Heliox but are barely average breathers with air by today’s comparisons.

Maintenance - parts costs, availability of properly trained technicians, performance after repairs,(this is actually a key item because if a trained repair tech can not match the performance of the reg as it was new after the repairs then well this can lead to additional problems down the line.

Reliability - is the regulator reliable and does its performance remain consistent with the different dive scenarios that are done over a one-year period. Then re-evaluate after each repair to see if it really does maintain the manufacturers claims.

I will leave you with this food for thought then I will submit the other half of the information.
 
Rainreg,

I couldn't have said it better. I hope people realize the depth of the wisdom you just released to them.

 
Why exactly do you need a special regulator when using mixed gases such as nitrox? :confused:
 
Hello LoCz, You do not need a special regulator to dive nitrox. But you should ensure to follow the manufacturers information on Nitrox equipment. The main difference between air regulators and Nitrox regulators is Soft goods and Seat material. These components should be Compatible with O2 (orings - Viton, EPDM preferred) (Seats - Kel F, Teflon 7A, Vespel preferred). Some of the industry sticks to a 40% rule (that means that when using up to 40% o2 these nitrox kits or conversions are safe) well you want the facts so here they are

1. There is not one Official Test or document conducted by a U.S facility to substantiate this rule. (40%)

2. The Department of Defense uses a lot of the information listed below and works with a 25% o2 and above to be cleaned based on the process listed in the 1330D instruction.

3. Through years of Official Testing by facilities like NASA, White Sands Test Facility, and Wendell Hull and Associates. There is a lot of information that our tax dollars have paid for and is available to us, some of the reports I would recommend to keep in your personal libraries would be as follows:

MIL-STD-1330D and MIL-STD-1330D (SH) Change1 (Standard Practice for precision Cleaning and testing of shipboard Oxygen, Helium, Helium-Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Hydrogen systems)

ASTM G72, ASTM 4809, ASTM D2863 (American Society for Testing and Materials)

Fire and Materials, Volume 20, 301-303 (1996) Note: Autoignition Temperature of Selected Polymers at Elevated Oxygen Pressure and their Heat of Combustion.

If you would like to contact White Sands Test Facility you can call (505)-524-5686 ask for Mr. Mike Shoffstall (mshoffst@wstf.nasa.gov) or you can contact Wendell Hull and Associates at (505)-523-5623 and you can ask for Mr. Barry Newton (bnewton@compuserve.com)or you can contact Elliot Forsyth a Consultant for Wendell Hull and Associates at (918)-746-1918 or via e-mail at oxygenengr@aol.com

Lastly The above information are guidelines and directives that the Department of Defense and Military use this in no way means that you as civilian recreational divers are held to the above directives but you should be aware of the testing and its results and use the information as a guide to safely understand this very Hot topic of material compatibility and O2 cleanliness procedures. Thank you for you time and safe diving.

rainreg
 
Well my initial instincts on hearing that you need a special regulator for the use of nitrox was one of "hmm why". I saw that nearly all manufacturers actually sell special "nitrox regulators". From my time as a molecular biology student i couldnt see a clear reason or any reason for thet matter as to why this could be. Apart maybe from the angle of pressure or the increase risk of rust formation in scuba tanks.

Why are special o rings and special grease formulations needed for nitrox and why does equipment for increased oxygen mixtures need to be cleaner than equipment for air?



Its all very interesting :/



 
Hello again, those are very good questions, the main reason behind the special process and materials when using equipment in an environment with elevated levels of O2 are as follows:

1. Oxygen is a gas with special properties, at high pressure it can become dangerous when mixed with materials that are not compatable (Buna, Nitrile Rubber, etc) these materials react in a negative way with HP O2, combine that with an unclean gas path (contaminants such as oils or lubricants that contain Hydrocarbons or just plain particulate. they can cause probplems in the gas path due to heat created by the impact of these contaminants at sharp angles or flat surfaces. (Heat, HP Oxygen, and a burnable substance makes for an explosive situation. the above information is provided in much more detail in the documentation stated in the previous Post. recommended Lubricants are also stated in this documentation. Most well known lubricant used is Christo-lube. I hope this answered your questions feel free to just ask away.
 
:)

What is HP, im guessing high purity?

Ok you said that O2 is dangerous when mixed with "non compatible" materials, namely rubber and hydrocarbons, at high pressures. Then you say that they react in a negative way with HP O2. So do you know why this ony occurs at higher O2 concentrations and not with air.

I read the info you posted ( thanks ) but i cant seem to find a site that explains why elevated O2 cocentrations are hazardous in relation to these "non compatible" matrials you mentioned.

Im sorrry if i sound pompous asking for more info and i probs sound v boring to most of our readers too LOL...


Its all just very interesting : / heh

thx rainreg :)
 
Never feel that your questions are boring and insignificant, they all serve a purpose and that is to gain knowledge. I enjoy the challenge of the questions on this board, some may seem boring or other, I see them as an opportunity to provide clarity where things are hazy or unknown.

In answer to your questions we will start with the term "HP" this term in my text refers to "High Pressure".

In answer to you other question here it is:

The following is an exerp from "Note: Autoignition Temperature of selected Polymers at Elevated Oxygen pressure and their Heat of Combustion" (By: Fu-Yu Hshieh, Joel M. Stoltzfus and Harold D. Beeson)

"Metals and polymers are more flammable in O2 enriched environments than in air . Ignition in Oxygen systems may be due to mechanical impact, rapid compression, friction, high speed particle impact, and high operating temperatures"
 
Cool, rainreg :) dont suppose you know what those temperatures where do you?

personally i think its all a gimmic in relation to scuba, but thats just a guess i amy very well be completely wrong. But i would be interested in those temperatures tested.

Your a scholar rainreg, btw what do you do for a living if you dont mind my asking ?
 
Hello LoCz, well the cleaning issue as well as the material compatabilty issues are by no means a gimic, they are a very real hazard and well due to the increase in use of HP o2 and other types of mixed gas there have been an increase in accidents and fatalities. So I can asure you this is not a marketing ploy by any means. It is a real danger that all recreational divers looking into nitrox, mixed gas and regreather use should be well aware of. Feel free to contact the individuals in the previous post to verify.

As far as what I do for a living well I am active duty military (19+ years) getting ready to retire, I am a saturation diver for the Navy. I have been working with diving equipment since I was 12, A small part of my resume can be found at http://www.detahq.com under staff.

I hope you contact the individuals in the previous post so you can really understand the need to understand these issues better. good luck

rainreg
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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