"Guided" 200' dive with a single AL80?

[xiSkiGuy]

I'll make you an offer, PM me with your name and when you got tech certified, and I'll check it out. It will take me 3 minutes tops. If you have all these certs as you say, I will take back what I said about you taking the classes. I will also issue you a public apology for doubting your training.

Deal??

Cheers

Gee Mike, don't wait up all night by the computer, OK?

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Gee Mike, don't wait up all night by the computer, OK?

I'm finishing the final edits on a documentary right now, so I'll be up for a couple more hours while the dam thing uploads to satellite. Oh well, this does make the time go faster...

 

[Cave Diver]

I missed the "paying client" part ... it doesn't say that anywhere in the text quoted in the OP. Does that info come from another conversation somewhere?

This thread was posted in response to a post and video that PlayaCountryBoy himself posted. It appears that thread was pulled. Actually he made several posts on two different boards. No where in that original post did he indicate that these were "friends" or "local dive pros." The information he provided himself is the reason that many of us are arguing against his irresponsible actions and behavior during the dive, including one of his "clients" going OOA.

Many of you are defending his actions apparently never saw the orginal post, nor realize that his story regarding this dive changed multiple times after people started mentioning the questionable nature of it.

One reason I ask is that it is factual that many PadI dive Ops such as those running trips to the Oriskany put you down on an 80 for a 139' dive. They don't allow doubles unless it is a tech dive.

That's news to me. I've dove the Oriskany with at least 3 different ops and used my doubles every time.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

This thread was posted in response to a post and video that PlayaCountryBoy himself posted. It appears that thread was pulled.

Holy vanishing threads batman, I didn't even realize it was pulled!

Anyone know why??

 

[drbill]

I try not to tell others how to dive... unless their diving procedures have the potential to affect my diving or my life. Therefore I will speak only about my deep diving and in no way suggest others follow my procedures. I can not recommend my methods to others whose diving skills, SAC rates, susceptibility to narcosis, etc., are unknown to me.

I dive in the 180-200 ft range on air with some regularity, or at least used to when I dove with my HP120 tank. Now that I'm diving an Al 90, I limit my depths to about 160 with an absolute basement of 180 ft.

I would NEVER dive to these depths on a single tank. Personally I find such practices to be very foolish. I always dive with redundancy, usually in the form of a 19 or 30 cu ft pony.

I dive air partially due to the expense of trimix on the island, and partially because I've been diving air for 46 years. I know pretty well how I respond to air at depth. I spent months testing my limits re: narcosis.

I dive these depths solo. There are only a few people I'd feel comfortable going to such depths with. Most of those aren't free to dive with me because they are foolish enough to have real jobs (you know, the ones with salaries attached).

I don't do bounce dives to depth. I drop to depth quickly, then slowly work my way upslope with multiple deep stops. Fortunately I almost never do square profiles thanks to the bottom topography off the island.

You can probably guess what I think about bounce diving to 200 ft on single tanks from my comments above.

 

[Scubakevdm]

there are a lot of members on here, who are assuming a lot of information when they make their comments.
first, correct me if i'm wrong, but i saw nothing in the quote about the divers paying the guide. i also saw nothing about ratings, certifications or experience.
so i think the significance, of rather what they did was proper or safe, comes down to the divers ratings, certifications, abilities and experience.

i have worked in a place where we dived to 180 - 220 regularly, and with single 80's. with the proper training, certifications and experience, this is not a crazy thing. i recently did a multilevel dive on the st croix wall, where we hit the 190' depth, and didn't rush up from that depth. we used deep stops on our computers, and spent a nice amount of time at each stop, on the wall. all of us were using 80's, and we were not in a rush. of course all of us are active instructors, who dive every single day, so our air conservation is really good. but, my point is, that this isn't a situation that i would think would raise this much of a reaction. padi doesn't have a problem with this, unless you are taking sport divers down, and breaking the sport diving depth of 130'. but with higher ratings and experience this isn't a big deal.

deco diving is very popular in the south pacific, but seems to be a cardinal sin in and around america. but unfortunately, the american region lags way behind the south pacific in dive technique. i'm not trying to talk smack, but that is my experience.

that being said, you should never dive deep, if you don't have a higher rating than advanced open water, don't have deep diving experience and are not with buddies with deep diving experience. there are more than a few facets to consider here.

I would ask how much deco you incurred, and then assuming you incurred any at all, I'd ask how much gas you got back on the boat with and why. Depending on your answers I'd either compare or contrast the example you gave to the one this thread is about. The biggest difference right now is that you mention proper training. Though your description of your dive doesn't strike me as being based on any of the technical diving principles that I am aware of.

Also I think that many would take exception to the remark that you made about "dive technique" lagging in the Americas. If your example is an example of the dive techniques of the South Pacific, I think that we might be able to help you to see that being prepared to handle unforeseen emergencies without going to the top through proper training, planning and the use of the correct equipment is not lagging, it's prudent risk management. I don't see an aversion to deco here, I just see (in most cases) better preparation for it. Training is the most fundamental part of this preparation.

 

[RS]

This popped up on youtube. Look at those puny tanks.

YouTube - 221 feet deep

 

[matts1w]

Double post- sorry.

 

[matts1w]

I dive in the 180-200 ft range on air with some regularity, or at least used to when I dove with my HP120 tank. Now that I'm diving an Al 90, I limit my depths to about 160 with an absolute basement of 180 ft.

I will be interesting to see if you get as slammed as the other guy. Hope no one calls the Catalina Island newspaper.

 

[Cave Diver]

I try not to tell others how to dive... unless their diving procedures have the potential to affect my diving or my life. Therefore I will speak only about my deep diving and in no way suggest others follow my procedures. I can not recommend my methods to others whose diving skills, SAC rates, susceptibility to narcosis, etc., are unknown to me.

I dive in the 180-200 ft range on air with some regularity, or at least used to when I dove with my HP120 tank. Now that I'm diving an Al 90, I limit my depths to about 160 with an absolute basement of 180 ft.

[/b]I would NEVER dive to these depths on a single tank. Personally I find such practices to be very foolish. I always dive with redundancy, usually in the form of a 19 or 30 cu ft pony.[/b]

I dive air partially due to the expense of trimix on the island, and partially because I've been diving air for 46 years. I know pretty well how I respond to air at depth. I spent months testing my limits re: narcosis.

I dive these depths solo. There are only a few people I'd feel comfortable going to such depths with. Most of those aren't free to dive with me because they are foolish enough to have real jobs (you know, the ones with salaries attached).

I don't do bounce dives to depth. I drop to depth quickly, then slowly work my way upslope with multiple deep stops. Fortunately I almost never do square profiles thanks to the bottom topography off the island.

You can probably guess what I think about bounce diving to 200 ft on single tanks from my comments above.

I will be interesting to see if you get as slammed as the other guy. Hope no one calls the Catalina Island newspaper.

Many of you missed the original thread, so as a result don't have a point of reference for our objections.

The person in the original thread took others to extreme depth with them on single AL80's while acting as a "guide." (His words, not mine)

Dr. Bill did the dives solo (a whole 'nuther argument) but he's not involving or endagering anyone else doing so. He also made more appropriate gas planning, including redundancy and taking into account deep stops. He is also not posting video and commentary on public boards glorifiying himself, or making it seem as if this type of diving is "ok."

I personally don't see a parallel to what Dr. Bill is doing and what was originally posted by Playa.

I've done my share of stupid dives, just as I'm sure a lot of us here has. The difference is the posting and chest thumping that makes it seem as if its routine and safe and possibly encouraging someone who doesn't know any better to follow suit.