Would you dive with someone who wouldn't share air if you were OOA?

[jimdiverman]

I think that certainly in technical diving situations where you cannot make a direct ascent to the surface (in a cavern, cave, wreck, have deco obligations), your air is your air. Even still, I don't know of any reports (there may be) where divers did not donate even then to OOA divers.

In a recreational diving situation where there is a direct ascent to the surface, I almost cannot conceive of any reason any rational diver would not donate to an OOA diver regardless of whether or not that diver was their buddy. At that point, the dive is over and the mission is save the OOA diver (and yourself). Especially if it is a recreational dive and there is no deco obligation.

It may not make me happy, but I would donate and ask questions later.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Not only would I not dive with someone who states they would not donate air to me should I need it, I tell you now that if I ever saw someone fight off a diver who was signaling OOA, be it myself or someone I don't even know, that diver and I will have a little heart to heart on the surface. And I can assure you it will not end well for the selfish diver.
As a civilized society I would hope people look out for each other better. This species would have failed long ago if we hadn't.

Yes, everyone has a responsibililty (Responsibility) to themselves to ensure they have enough gas for the dive, but crap happens and when it does that is when contingency plans go into effect.

Oh, before I forget... There is a term for forcing someone's head under water, especially when they are already drowning. Attempted murder. Just murder if you succeed.

Your killing me! How do you fight of someone who is signaling OOA? If they a signaling they are in control and depending on the situation a course of action should be taken, sometimes it's as simple as handing then a Spare Reg, Spare air, Pony Bottle, or going straight up to the surface! There is no one fits all!

But welcome to the Board and thanks for ganging up without knowing the facts! Taking vigilante action seem to be your choice, it can also be called 187PC!

 

[Papa_Bear]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Bear View Post
This is great! You talking about it! I am still waiting for someone to post what agency says your air belongs to someone else!

This is the third time you've asked this. As mentioned before, any agency that teaches rock bottom explicitly calls for your air reserves (at a minimum the last 500psi, typically 700-1200psi, do the math) being meant for sharing.

So stop telling me what you think and post a reference!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

me too, but when diving with a true buddy I dont expect them to share with me and I make it clear that they are on their own.

A true buddy would find that answer unacceptable.

When I dive, my approach to the dive plan considers everything I take underwater with me. When I take a buddy (or two buddies on some dives), our plan considers all the resources available. We choose dive site, profile, and objectives according to the resources we all carry ... both in terms of gas and equipment. If everyone doesn't agree to that approach, they don't go.

Whenever someone has to consider themselves "on their own", then they don't HAVE a dive buddy ... even when there's another diver swimming beside them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Gombessa]

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but it would be interesting if any attorneys here would chime in with an opinion....how would the legal system, both civil and criminal, deal with a diver who refused to share air and let another diver drown?

This has been pretty well hashed in other threads, but the nutshell is it's pretty well settled that you have no duty to share air with a random diver who OOAs, and generally no duty to rescue unless you initiate rescue or fall into one of several narrow categories of exceptions (close family members, emergency personnel acting in the line of work, etc.).

As to designated buddies, the question is murkier, and you have to decide the extent of the duty a buddy owes. If it's "we're diving together" then that's not much to go on. If it's "we agree that I'm responsible for your safety, you're responsible for mine," then refusing to provide reasonable assistance when doing so would not endanger yourself could be a breach. I think least one jurisdiction has held that a buddy has a duty to reasonably perform a pre-dive check may be liable if he fails to do so.

 

[sea nmf]

Well, someone already said it. I'd like to reiterate. These issues should be discussed before the dive, along with everything else, unless it is a buddy you constantly dive with and know the plan, etc.

Then, you frequently monitor your buddy's air (every 10 minutes or so, for me). The OOA can be avoided under most circumstances. However, emergencies occasionally happen. This is what the reserve is for, not for someone who simply uses more air than you.

If I discussed the dive plan prior to the dive and the buddy stated they would not share air with me, it would merit more discussion and clarification. If the buddy meant that they would not share air with me, regardless of the issue, then I would not dive with that buddy.

 

[Adobo]

I think that certainly in technical diving situations where you cannot make a direct ascent to the surface (in a cavern, cave, wreck, have deco obligations), your air is your air. Even still, I don't know of any reports (there may be) where divers did not donate even then to OOA divers.

In a recreational diving situation where there is a direct ascent to the surface, I almost cannot conceive of any reason any rational diver would not donate to an OOA diver regardless of whether or not that diver was their buddy. At that point, the dive is over and the mission is save the OOA diver (and yourself). Especially if it is a recreational dive and there is no deco obligation.

It may not make me happy, but I would donate and ask questions later.

Even in technical diving situations (however that is defined), a team can plan the usage of the resources so that if any one the team has a failure, there is sufficient reserves to get everyone out safely. It's all a matter of planning. If you find yourself in a situation where you do not have enough resources at the time that the emergency arises, it is because everyone in the team scr*wed the pooch planning the dive and/or executing the dive.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I'd dive with ya Papa

 

[Gombessa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_Bear View Post
This is great! You talking about it! I am still waiting for someone to post what agency says your air belongs to someone else!




So stop telling me what you think and post a reference!

Read the GUE text Getting Clear on the Basics: The Fundamentals of Technical Diving. It's explicitly in there. Other cave and tech courses teach the same principle.

 

[Gentleman-pirate]

Someone who wouldn't share air with you, isn't likely to be the person that tips the dive crew.

Know your dive partner and practice all the life saving skills with your dive partner all the time.

A good dive partner makes diving better in every way possible.

All the rest of this is just BS and a waste of bandwidth.

--------kevin----------