Pony thoughts (I know prob beaten to death)

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Well, it seems as though you've been offered three different options:

1. Dive a single tank with good buddies, and practice emergency procedures often. Personally, I think this is a very reasonable solution for most recreational diving, but it sounds as though that option is ruled out for you by the rules of the boats you go out on.

2. Carry a pony. The advantages are immediate self-rescue and some redundancy. The disadvantages are adding the complexity of a second tank and regulator, where the gas in the tank is not part of your gas planning for the dive. People raise various concerns about carrying pony bottles -- If you aren't careful with the placement of the pony reg, you can have a leak or freeflow without being aware of it, and find the bottle empty when you need its contents. If you include the gas in the pony as part of your safety reserve for you and your buddy (see "rock bottom"), then you have to deal with the question of which reg you donate. If you donate your primary but intend to put the OOG diver on your pony, you have to stabilize them and switch regs, which is a time of risk. If you donate the pony reg, you have to have it somewhere where you can easily reach it and it will reliably be there, but where it is very easy to get free to donate. Those two characteristics are somewhat incompatible.

If you only carry the pony for self-rescue, and have to carry rock bottom on your back, the pony isn't helping you much. And the wrong size pony (see the post above about 6 cu ft) will give you a false sense of security.

3. Manifolded doubles. This is the best way to provide redundancy and maximize the options for self rescue, but doubles are heavy and unwieldy. And unlike a pony bottle, where if you don't use it, you don't fill it, you have to refill doubles after use, and most places don't give you credit for the safety reserve gas that you didn't touch (cave country being an exception!)

Both a pony and doubles require two first stages; a pony setup may require three second stages, depending on your gas donation plan.

Although we do it, it is often difficult in diving to draw a line and say, "This is the ONLY valid approach to this problem." Each approach has its benefits and drawbacks, and each individual has to make his own decisions about what approach fits bets for him. What's important is actually to think about the pros and cons of each decision and get educated, which is what you did by asking the question here, which is great.

My strategy is single tank for shallower diving, with good buddies; doubles for deeper diving, regardless of buddies, and doubles for shallow dives with unknown or inexperienced buddies. But it's easy for me -- I don't do much diving off boats, and we own four sets of doubles :)
 
I sometimes carry a buddy bottle, I sling it. I use either a 19 or a 30 aluminum Luxfer. I hardly notice it there. Other times I don't use it and of course I hardly notice it is not there. I carry it for deep solo as an example--sometimes. I don't want to carry the huge weight of doubles or fool with all of the extra girth of a doubles set, doubles manifold and more so the huge drag of a doubles sized wing and the complexity. I prefer my sleek Oxy Mach V and a 85 to 100 cf tank and a 19 cf tucked in under my arm, sleek and streamlined and COMPLETELY independent of one another

Agreed, if I don't need the extra gas that doubles provide, there is no sense in lugging them. Not mention the expense if you are just starting out.

If you need or want redundancy but do not need all that gas to make your dive, why carry doubles? IMO you are setting yourself up for a possible injury on a pitching boat deck lugging all that extra weight. I would only use them if the dive profile demanded it.

And I will agree with Ranier, 6CF is not very much. Probably wouldn't cost much more to get a 19, and in the water there is not much difference. That is probably the smallest you want to go in order to be able to self rescue...
 
Since we are on the subject of Pony bottles I would say you will probably end up going to doubles eventually so you might want to look into them as an option now. In NJ you dont have a choice so doubles are in my opinion the best option unless for some reason you cant physically handle them which is a possibility for some people.

Slightly similar but different approach: Go with a 40cf sling bottle as your bail-out bottle for the time being. Plenty of gas for any sort of "oh-s**t" emergency, and if/when you do go to doubles you've already got a 40cf bottle for deco.
 
You may find my opinion extreme but after taking a solo diver class and thinking about the buddy system and redundancy A LOT, I stand firmly behind it: The buddy system is a fallacy. In theory, it is a great system. If you have a good buddy, AND you and your buddy ALWAYS stay at arm's length during the ENTIRE dive, then a good buddy may be all you need.

How many divers have you seen that do this? Me? None, ever.

IMHO, people who dive the way that 99.9 percent of buddy teams dive and think they can get their buddy's attention quickly enough to ward off an emergency, are simply fooling themselves. i dive with a pony and it gives me a peace of mind no buddy ever could.
 
If you need or want redundancy but do not need all that gas to make your dive, why carry doubles?

I feel much more solid in doubles (once I'm in the water, naturally).


Also let's say I'm doing the rare boat dive (I do try to get on a boat once or twice a year to break up the beach diving routine). There are very few boats around here with decent fill stations. I may rather bring out a set of doubles and do all 3-4 shallow dives on the one LDS fill than bring out a singles tank and have the boat top it off (hoping that they'll get some air in there along with the water). For deeper dives, I'll bring two sets of doubles.
 
Slightly similar but different approach: Go with a 40cf sling bottle as your bail-out bottle for the time being. Plenty of gas for any sort of "oh-s**t" emergency, and if/when you do go to doubles you've already got a 40cf bottle for deco.

Given the NJ "rules", this is a pretty reasonable approach in my opinion. I'd personally just use the doubles myself, but I recognize they aren't for everyone. The 40 makes a nice pony, isn't all that noticeable when correctly slung, and is a useful size if you go on to decompression diving.
 
2. Carry a pony. The advantages are immediate self-rescue and some redundancy. The disadvantages are adding the complexity of a second tank and regulator, where the gas in the tank is not part of your gas planning for the dive. People raise various concerns about carrying pony bottles -- If you aren't careful with the placement of the pony reg, you can have a leak or freeflow without being aware of it, and find the bottle empty when you need its contents. If you include the gas in the pony as part of your safety reserve for you and your buddy (see "rock bottom"), then you have to deal with the question of which reg you donate. If you donate your primary but intend to put the OOG diver on your pony, you have to stabilize them and switch regs, which is a time of risk. If you donate the pony reg, you have to have it somewhere where you can easily reach it and it will reliably be there, but where it is very easy to get free to donate. Those two characteristics are somewhat incompatible.

If you only carry the pony for self-rescue, and have to carry rock bottom on your back, the pony isn't helping you much. And the wrong size pony (see the post above about 6 cu ft) will give you a false sense of security.
Excellent points/concerns.

My pony is for me*. I plan the dive, turn pressure, total gas, buddy reserve etc. with out considering the pony. It is not there according to the dive plan. Should I have an OOG situation, I can switch to it and either ascend or get to my buddy and switch to their octo and ascend.

If my buddy is OOG I donate either my primary or octo ( if they ask nicely they get the octo, if they are in a hurry they get the primary). After we establish they are breathing and we are ready to go up I have a choice to make. If we are deep and not close to the up line, we may need to shoot a bag and tie off to the wreck. I do not want to be linked to another diver while this is underway so I will hand the pony off to the other diver, shoot the bag and up we go. Should the pony not be sufficient to surface we can switch back to my back gas but I carry a big enough pony bottle to get ME up safely from 100 feet with a 3 minute stop.:crafty:

I sling my pony, if it freeflows I can shut it off. If I need to pass it off I can. This is what works for me. YMMV
 
Slightly similar but different approach: Go with a 40cf sling bottle as your bail-out bottle for the time being. Plenty of gas for any sort of "oh-s**t" emergency, and if/when you do go to doubles you've already got a 40cf bottle for deco.

Get out of my mind! You wrote what I was thinking! Thanks! :D
 
I'm wrestling with the whole 'To pony or not to pony' question as well. I've just bought a secondhand 19cuft which I'm bringing back into test.

First of all I'll say that the pony would be for a failure of some kind not because I ran out of air through mis-management.

For me its all about the 'likelyhood' of a failure. How likely is a failure that shuts off all of my air to occur? My feeling is that its unlikely, but does that mean I shouldn't plan for it for no stop diving. I haven't answered that question yet!

I only dive to 30m (100ft) at the moment in open water, no wrecks, no overhangs.

My main buddy and I have been diving a few times now and are working each other out. He's the only buddy I've dived with more than once, the rest (insta-buddies) I have spent more of my attention in watching them so as to stay close rather than enjoying the dive.

This is where I think that a pony may benefit me, I can still use good buddy techniques but my buddy and I don't have to be joined at hip.

That link to manifold operation was very interesting particularly,
'When a regulator fails, however, it does not shut off a diver’s gas supply, but rather begins to free flow.'
which leads me to think I'd have air to swim to my buddy and abort the dive.

 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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