Maskless and disappointed.. for now

[oreocookie]

You won't be reading Chaucer down there, you just want to be able to see your buddy, navigate and see the pretty coral. Don't think too hard about the lenses for your mask, just go with an approximate fit.

If I didn't have to read gauges, I wouldn't bother getting a prescription mask at all, I've snorkelled without it and was able to see whatever I was looking at well enough. Could go for gauge-readers, but I figure if I'm going to see those clearly, may as well see everything more clearly.

 

[peterbj7]

I'll try to describe it as best I can, as I'm having trouble finding some kind of guideline on what constitutes weak or strong. I'm farsighted in both eyes, with I guess, a midrange kind of prescription, not weak but not extremely strong either, with a fair amount of astigmatism, too much to ignore, but not enough for one of the websites mentioned in this thread to charge an extra lab fee for strong astigmatism. My right eye has a bit stronger Rx for both regular lens power and astigmatism, and generally leaves all the important seeing to my left eye.

Since I wear glasses basically all the time, I figure that same prescription would fit needs in seeing close and far in the water as well, including reading instruments.
(I have only one Rx, not one for near and one for far)

As for waiting 6 weeks to get the mask back, that time frame doesn't really surprise me, though I've seen rush service advertised, with 3-4 day turn-around.. then including shipping, maybe about 2 weeks. One way or another, looks like I'm going to have to take a blurry, educated guess at whether I've got 2200, 2300 or 2400psi in my tank (eg) or ask my buddy to read it for me for at least a couple of lessons. I don't really look forward to that, but I guess I'll be able to enjoy it more when I actually can see.

That helps a lot. You have vision much like mine, though I have the added complication of a weak eye. If you don't know what that means, it's not a sliding scale with "weak" at one end of it. It means I can't focus with that eye, so reading with it is an impossibility, regardless of correction applied.

What I now believe you need is a simple mask with planar lenses (ie. not corrected lenses), but with a small planar-convex lens glued in at the lower outside corner of one of the lenses. In my case my left lens - through that magnifier I can read all my gauges just fine. You can get hemispherical plastic lens inserts that supposedly hold in by surface tension but I wouldn't use those - they're expensive and they DO fall out. Instead I would get a round lens sold by Trident for just 2 or 3 dollars that you stick in the right place with clear neoprene cement. That won't fall out (but it can be removed when needed). I adopted that solution years ago and it still works. I actually bought two magnifiers and two masks, so I have a spare.

There's little point in having a magnifier on both sides, though I suppose there's no reason why you shouldn't if it suited you. Wouldn't work for me so I can't comment from experience.

Forget about prescription lenses, at least for the time being. I think you'll find they wouldn't work anyway - I've never come across anyone with long sight who had corrected lenses, and I suspect there's a reason for that. Don't forget that the sea does compensate to a degree for long sight, so you'll probably find you can see much better underwater than on the surface without glasses.

 

[oreocookie]

I do know what a weak eye is, mostly because I have one too, though I think around here they're generally refered to as lazy eyes (though that could be something else entirely). generally, I only use periferal vision from my right eye.

I'll probably look further into the small insert lenses than I originally intended, and possibly try them out during the class. I'll lose alot less by trying them first than if I get the full lenses and find out the inserts would have worked fine.

 

[peterbj7]

No, "lazy" is the same as "weak" in this context.

 

[JonKranhouse]

Oreocookie – patience – I’ve got specific comments for you at the end of this post.

Whoa! This thread has loads of potentially dangerous misinformation getting passed along as facts about diving with fuzzy vision, contact lenses, and Lasik. Diving with fuzzy vision has injured divers. Contacts have an impeccable safety record (e.g. approved by the US Navy) when hygiene protocols are obeyed. And permanent bad outcomes from Lasik are hundreds of times more likely than a getting a curable vision-threatening infection by breaking rules RE contact lens hygiene.

Because I believe it’s dangerous to dive with fuzzy and narrow vision, I founded HydroOptix. If your buddy strays away, to the edge of the murk (or are you the one straying?) at some point he or she will be impossible to see if you’ve got vision problems. But visual contact would have remained with sharp vision.

DAN accident reports cite that buddy separation occurs, frequently, before the victim got into trouble. In some years, over 50% of underwater fatalities occurred when the surviving buddy DID NOT SEE the tragedy unfold. Situational awareness is irrevocably made worse by poor vision.

HydroOptix makes both conventional Rx masks, and a “Double-Dome” mask (the curved mask that peterbj7 may be thinking of). Your unique vision Rx dictates the best solution – including the material of the lens – unlike other companies that offer a limited choice.

If you can read your gauges in full daylight above-water, that DOES NOT mean you’re OK when diving, when illumination intensity is radically reduced.

Sadly, dive instructors are not taught that 30-feet underwater the light intensity can easily be just 1/100th of what’s above water (sun 48-degrees below perfectly straight-up / AKA the “critical angle,” combined with low-visibility water). When your pupils dilate in dark conditions, many people discover they can no longer focus, just as a camera’s wide-open iris causes poor “depth of field.” Depending upon your Rx, dim light could impact your far vision, or make reading your gauges impossible, or both. All this is entirely predictable and easily preventable, based upon your vision Rx.

LASIK is not a panacea. Congressional hearings in April revealed that more than 100,000 people have had their vision permanently damaged by botched procedures. Not just OLD procedures – even the “very latest” technology is causing tragic results, as reported by the New York Times last March.

I’ve heard many first-hand accounts from divers-in-training who were encouraged by dive stores and instructors to learn to dive with uncorrected vision -- so fuzzy they are “legally blind” (without correction). Sometimes, their fuzzy vision started a cascade of events that ended in injury requiring medical treatment, consultation with a DAN-referral MD, and a multi-week delay in training. The result could have easily been far worse. I believe it was insane for a store to allow a father and his 11-year-old son to take beginning training together, while each was “legally blind” (-3.25 SPH / -3.5 CYL and -3.0 SPH / -1.0 CYL, respectively). Generic “drop-in” lenses were not appropriate given their CYL.

A CYL up to 1.0 (+ or -) is OK to correct with a “sphere-equivalent” (i.e. stronger SPH) with CONTACT LENSES for most people. But doing so with a mask is NOT good for a CYL over 0.5 (+ or -). When the geometric center of the lens radius on a flat mask is far behind one’s eyeball, improperly corrected CYL will cause eye-strain and headaches in most divers over time. (Because the geometric center of the eye matches either a contact lens or our Double-Dome mask, higher CYL correction is possible.)

Our custom-ground Rx flat masks are NOT all made the same. We choose Rx lenses from polymer, glass, and different high index materials, depending upon your Rx. Whether we use a fused bifocal glass lens and bond-on, OR shape the Rx from a single slab of optical glass or CR-39 polymer, depends upon your Rx. LINK to bifocal options.

I believe it is unethical to make an Rx mask for a high POSITIVE diopter Rx using the “conventional” approach, because such a plano-convex lens greatly reduces your field-of-view while simultaneously causing fuzzy vision for off-axis views. Instead, we recommend a lens “carrier” to preserve more field-of-view.

Even your PD (pupillary distance) determines our best approach, because of mechanical constraints of lens geometry. It all starts with your unique Rx.
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SOFT disposable contact lenses have an excellent record of success with divers – that’s why the US Navy allows their EOD divers to wear contacts on combat missions.

A study published by the South Pacific Underwater Medical Society (SPUMS) found that soft lenses adhere snugly to the eye, and did not easily wash out. (Researchers used surgical adhesive to secure thin suture thread to the front surface of contacts, both rigid and soft types of contacts, then measured how much force was required to tug the contact lens off while underwater.)

Infection risks from contacts are virtually impossible IF proper hygiene protocols are followed. For diving, that means removing the soft disposable contacts after diving (throw them away), and for God’s sake – DON’T sleep in contacts after diving. Don’t lick the contacts to clean them (!), etc. Our website highlights proper contact lens protocols.
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oreocookie:
Some eye doctors are contact lens specialists – they keep up to date on advanced materials and go through a peer-review process to prove their expertise with “hard-to-fit” patients. So contacts might still be possible, with a contact-lens specialist. Custom-lathed high-CYL contacts are possible, made from soft material (they freeze the material when spin-cutting on the lathe). But to preserve your precious vision in your good eye -- be SURE to remove your contacts after diving, disinfect or discard, and switch back to eyeglasses.

Or, go with a conventional flat mask with custom-ground Rx lenses. The mask you mentioned looks to be a copy of a mask that was originated by Tabata in the 1980’s. Because this geometry fits so many faces so well, it has been cloned / copied by most dive-industry manufacturers, and minor variations are sold worldwide under 60+ brand names. The field-of-view is not outstanding, but the mask offers a reliable fit. Here’s our version.

You can send us your vision Rx for our recommendation. If you can’t read your doctor’s writing (not that unusual ; -), ask their office to send us a fax or scan of your Rx. MAKE SURE to include your PD – which you can measure yourself.

 

[peterbj7]

Yes, HydroOptix was the name I was searching for. I can't speak for the efficacy of the masks because I've never used one, but I've had a few customers with them. One thing all of them hated was having to take the mask off before attempting to climb the ladder back onto the boat, as they said (their words) they were "blind" above water. Scratching of the bulging dome was also reported as a problem, though more cosmetic than real - it seemed the refractive index of the lens material was similar to that of water, so the scratches just vanished underwater.

I didn't know they were made "to measure" though, and that sounds a significant feature. Presumably the manufacturer (Jon) can say whether/how they adapt the prescription for use much further away from the eye.

"Sharp Vision" is however effectively totally subjective. I have no idea what perfect vision would be like, as I long ago adapted to the vision I've got. I need help to read gauges under water, and that I have. Otherwise I manage very well with what may be my "fuzzy" vision. In quite a few thousand dives I've never found it to be a hindrance.

For me, cost would be a factor. I believe these masks cost quite a bit of money. I'm not saying they're not value for that money, merely that quite a lot of it is involved.

 

[Ron G.]

Jon,

Setting aside the Rx issue for a moment, when folks talk about selecting a new mask, the recommendation is always the same: you gotta try on different masks until you find one that fits. Every face is different. There's no mask that fits everyone.

Given that, I don't understand how you apparently sell masks via mail-order, where the buyer can't try them on.

I'm getting ready to buy a new mask for two reasons. I want to get prescription lenses that work better than the single vision lenses that I picked out without the benefit of knowing my prescription, and I want to avoid a mask that leaks. (I've had leaking problems before.)

I like the idea of buying from someone who specializes in prescription masks, but I don't know how to deal with the issue of getting a proper fit.

(I also gotta say that I'm don't see me getting the "double-dome" style....just too unusual-looking for me.)

So, Jon, explain to me about getting a good mask fit.

Thx.

Ron

 

[NancyLynn]

My first attempt at aquiring some dive gear failed miserably, leaving the lds with little more than a business card with an address writen on it.

So then I figured, lets see the sphere-only correcting lenses to see how well I could see with them, and turns out that they don't carry + power lenses, that they cost more, and that I'd have to pay for half in order to even be able to see if they'd be good or not, in 2 weeks when they'd arrive. So this perfectly fitting (so it seems) mask went back onto the shelf.

Bummer. If I were you, since your LDS can't provide what you need I'd try someone else (if there are other shops around) to see if they can do the quick fit job. My spouse has really bad eyesight. The off-the-shelf correction wasn't perfect, but close enough that it's not really much worse than the glasses get between visits to the eye doctor. It has made swimming possible for the first time ever - and even though diving was a washout, the mask still gets plenty of use.

I'd also push the LDS on the discount. Mine gave me a discount on anything I bought from first class to completion of certification. Having to purchase everything all at once seems like a bad business move.

Added later: I somehow missed the multiple pages of the thread that would have let me know you need correction for farsighted vision - I doubt anyone will carry off the shelf lenses for that since it is much rarer (except the gradual aging type far-sighted-ness). I'll leave my original comment here, in case near-sighted folks evaluating whether an imperfect off-the-shelf fix might be worth it.

 

[NancyLynn]

What I now believe you need is a simple mask with planar lenses (ie. not corrected lenses), but with a small planar-convex lens glued in at the lower outside corner of one of the lenses. In my case my left lens - through that magnifier I can read all my gauges just fine. You can get hemispherical plastic lens inserts that supposedly hold in by surface tension but I wouldn't use those - they're expensive and they DO fall out. Instead I would get a round lens sold by Trident for just 2 or 3 dollars that you stick in the right place with clear neoprene cement. That won't fall out (but it can be removed when needed). I adopted that solution years ago and it still works. I actually bought two magnifiers and two masks, so I have a spare

Thanks! I am farsighted (and getting worse as I get older). I can still read my gauges without correction, but photography is getting harder because I can't focus on the LCD well enough to see what I have (or how well focused it is). I may try this trick!

 

[rshreader]

I am one of the lucky people who have had Lasik and no longer need glasses for driving or diving. But if I needed a prescription lens I would try the HydroOptix. The cost is less than a pair of eyeglasses, at least less than the reading glasses I still use at night or for the very small print that seems endemic nowadays.

Jon-

Thanks for a detailed explanation.

I gather you have a number of masks, some of which are versions of very successful models other manufacturers produce.

Oreocookie-

I heard the Sea Vision are good and seem to market to prescription lenses. Also, I tried a couple on and when I next want to by a new mask I plan on buying one, non prescription, for fit alone. But if Jon says his version is identical or similar enough to the one that fits you so well, just order it in your prescription.

I am a new diver. I did my OW dives in Jamaica. I recommend you get your exact prescription. You will want to see all those undersea wonders as clearly as possible.