Water entry with regulator in mouth can cause embolism?

[Ed L.]

Sounds rather like an urban legend. I've been around diving for just shy of 50 years, and I never heard this one until now. I too would be curious to know if this happens, and if so what is the mechanism. It would be great to get some authoritative documented evidence.

But dont you know that someone heard it from the friend of a brother whose uncle it was that was twice removed and told about by the guys mother?

 

[dave4868]

My questions, for anyone kind enough to provide some insight, are as follows: what is the risk of getting an embolism by entering the water with a regulator in your mouth? Even if it's .01%, that's a risk I'd rather not take. If something has changed since I was trained (Jan 2008), where can I find information on the new procedures?

I agree with those who pointed out that, while it's possible, it's extremely unlikely to burst a lung and embolize during water entry with a regulator in the mouth.

I'd suggest the potential scenario probably occurs occasionally, but doesn't result in damage because it would require an extremely full breath to be taken a few feet below the surface and then not vented on the way up. With less than an extremely full breath, there would be room for the air to expand without exceeding the lung's elasticity.

Just guessing, but I'd bet the chances of such a scenario causing damage are less than one in several million, based on the huge number of uneventful dive entries made each year with the regulator in the mouth.

IMHO, a more likely diving hazard is simply gagging on water, blacking out and finally drowning.

With that in mind, my regulator is always in my mouth when I'm at any risk of taking a shot of water down the wrong pipe!

Dave C

 

[BIGSAGE136]

I can tell you from experience its potentially hazardous to try it any other way!

 

[Melicertes]

SteveAD's comment further down says it right. My analogy just didn't work here so just disregard it.

 

[pt40fathoms]

Either urban legend, or the wild imaginations of a non-diver who reads a lot yet has no training or experience.

Never heard of this happening, ever, anywhere, anytime.

It did give me a good chuckle though, as I found it rather funny.

 

[RubberDucky]

IMHO, a more likely diving hazard is simply gagging on water, blacking out and finally drowning.

With that in mind, my regulator is always in my mouth when I'm at any risk of taking a shot of water down the wrong pipe!

Choking/gagging from inhaling water is something that, oddly (to me, anyway), I don't recall being discussed in the PADI OW certification material. That has been on my mind since my OW training when I did exactly that. Thankfully we were only down about 10fsw or so, and after trying to regain control of normal breathing for a bit, I finally said screw it and surfaced.

As luck would have it, I was at the bookstore the other day looking for Diver Down, as someone on here had recommended it, when I came across the Scuba Diving Third Edition book. Randomly thumbing through the pages I found this gem on page 128:

If, in spite all you do to avoid it, you inhale some water and start coughing, try swallowing hard three times in rapid succession. The swallowing helps you overcome your coughing reflex.

Since there's no simple way to test that, I'm hoping that is sound advice, because that's exactly what I plan on trying next time it happens. :doh2: I think I'll give the forums search feature a spin and see what I can find about the recommended ways to deal with choking on water while underwater or start a new thread on it if I can't find anything conclusive.

 

[John_B]

I must be especially daft today... I would expect to see an embolism from holding your breath at depth and then ascending. So more air molecules than there is now space to occupy.

How is holding your breath with a reg in your mouth during a giant stride any different functionally from the way a freediver does a breath hold dive? The diver starts with 1ATA and surfaces with 1ATA, with slightly less than 1ATA as they giant stride in?'

 

[SteveAD]

I must be especially daft today... I would expect to see an embolism from holding your breath at depth and then ascending. So more air molecules than there is now space to occupy.

How is holding your breath with a reg in your mouth during a giant stride any different functionally from the way a freediver does a breath hold dive? The diver starts with 1ATA and surfaces with 1ATA, with slightly less than 1ATA as they giant stride in?'

It would have to be a specific DO IT WRONG.
* Diver does a giant stride from height.
* Hits the water inhaling.
* Descends several feet-still inhaling.
* Holds breath at max depth.
* Ascends with breath held
* Embolism

Theoretically possible, but highly unlikely

 

[Melicertes]

It would have to be a specific DO IT WRONG.
* Diver does a giant stride from height.
* Hits the water inhaling.
* Descends several feet-still inhaling.
* Holds breath at max depth.
* Ascends with breath held
* Embolism

Theoretically possible, but highly unlikely

SteveAd's got it. Besides this, the BCD would probably be underinflated or the diver would have to be really heavily overweighted to penetrate the water deep enough to reach a depth significant enough where a breath of air from his regulator would mean taking in enough air volume to expand enough to cause a lung over expansion injury that could lead to an embolism. So whichever which way you look at it, a diver that is so heavily overweighted, does not inflate his BCD enough to minimize water penetration and holds his breath as he resurfaces is IMHO a Darwin Awards candidate.

 

[dave4868]

Choking/gagging from inhaling water is something that, oddly (to me, anyway), I don't recall being discussed in the PADI OW certification material. That has been on my mind since my OW training when I did exactly that. Thankfully we were only down about 10fsw or so, and after trying to regain control of normal breathing for a bit, I finally said screw it and surfaced.

As luck would have it, I was at the bookstore the other day looking for Diver Down, as someone on here had recommended it, when I came across the Scuba Diving Third Edition book. Randomly thumbing through the pages I found this gem on page 128:

If, in spite all you do to avoid it, you inhale some water and start coughing, try swallowing hard three times in rapid succession. The swallowing helps you overcome your coughing reflex.

Since there's no simple way to test that, I'm hoping that is sound advice, because that's exactly what I plan on trying next time it happens. :doh2: I think I'll give the forums search feature a spin and see what I can find about the recommended ways to deal with choking on water while underwater or start a new thread on it if I can't find anything conclusive.

Gagging on water can certainly leave a lasting impression!

Since it's so easy to avoid or survive above water, the risk of choking on water is often downplayed or ignored by divers, I think. However, even while still on the surface, scuba divers have been known to choke on water and drown.

I've had my own experience with a partial laryngospasm, so I respect the danger and take a few simple precautions to reduce it.

My point was that it's a more common hazard than the extremely rare scenario of suffering an arterial gas embolism from holding a breath off a regulator taken after first jumping in.

By the way, my 1994 PADI Open Water Diver Manual addresses, on p. 150, the issue of "choking on inhaled water" by suggesting one "hold the regulator or snorkel in place and cough through it" and adds that "swallowing sometimes helps relieve choking, too."

Either urban legend, or the wild imaginations of a non-diver who reads a lot yet has no training or experience.

Never heard of this happening, ever, anywhere, anytime.

It did give me a good chuckle though, as I found it rather funny.

Likewise, I haven't heard of any documented cases, but it's not inconceivable. You may find interesting the following report by Howard W. Pollock entitled:

A CLASSIC CASE OF DIVER AIR EMBOLISM AT THE SURFACE FROM HIGH WAVE ACTION

http://archive.rubicon-foundation.org/6120

We can thank Gene Hobbs' for archiving thousands of such informative diving-related reports and studies in his Rubicon Research Repository. Thanks again!

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Dave C