Peer Pressure in Chuuk

[DaleC]

Good last post Amy. I was going to ask what the attraction would be to doing a bounce dive as was suggested rather than a longer dive at a more reasonable depth. Bragging rights (I suppose) but that is not such an attraction to me. I am much more impressed by people who can stand firm on what they know is right (for them).

 

[Graeme Tolton]

Someone who has never been beyond 130', definitely made the right choice not to go to 180' on AIR, presumably. That is a significant increase in narcosis and air consumption. If you want to do this dive, there is always some time in the future. For now, gain experience, learn how to safely do the dive.

 

[Web Monkey]

I am told that max depth is 180'. (I have never been diving outside of recreational limits before.) The plan is to descend, have a look for 15 minutes tops and then do a 15 min or so deco stop on the way up. (I have never had to do a deco stop...)

Congratulations on saying "No!" You're going to live to dive another day!

One of the mysteries of the universe is that as actions becomes dumber and more dangerous, the people trying to convince you "Everything will be fine!" get louder and more insistent.

I just try to be polite and say "No thanks." However if they insist, the next response is "I promised my wife I won't get killed." and if they still insist, the next response is either "Can I have your stuff when they recover your body" or "Bl** me." depending on what mood I'm in. But once someone starts pushing, I won't do the dive even if it's supposed to be in 12 feet of water next to the boat. If something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't.

Stick with your training. You might miss out on a dive, but at least you won't die attempting it.

And as others have mentioned, I wouldn't do the planned dive without at least a medium-sized set of doubles, deco gas and my regular buddy. That might make me a wuss, but it makes me a live wuss.

Terry

 

[AmyDelyla]

So here is the unfortunate punch line that we have all been half expecting...

They did the SF Maru. They had 10 minutes on the ship and a 30 min deco stop according to the DM.

After this, they insisted on doing the 130ft Nippo Maru even though the DM urged them not to do two deep dives in a row. They pressed the issue. They sorted it out this way: The DM who was on the SF dive did a shallower (yet still totally awesome) wreck with me for the second dive. A different DM who had not been diving yet that day did the Nippo with the SF group.

Apparently all types of things went wrong on their Nippo dive including: not finding the ship, losing the DM and a run away ascent.

My friend who so wanted me to dive the San Fran with him is currently on oxygen.

I can only hope that he will be okay.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Well Amy . . .best regards to your friend. They have an excellent multiplace recompression chamber that's nearby if symptoms worsen (and no it's not that rusted antiquated one man chamber in front of the dive shop) --I was patient #45 last year October after a dive on the SF Maru (aka "The Table Six Maru" in my log book ) after botching a deco profile. Don't hesitate and insist immediately upon going to the chamber if your friend begins to show any frank oncoming signs or symptoms.

Nippo Maru is too deep and not a good second dive strategy after the SF Maru even with a minimum three hour SIT as recommended by NAUItec. (For my five day Truk Trip two weeks ago, I did one deep deco wreck dive 45m to 54m depth at 9am, and a shallow one like Heian Maru, Fujikawa Maru, Rio De Janeiro Maru etc. 15m to 18m in the afternoon around 3pm.)

btw, the best wreck & technical training in Micronesia (since you're already out there in Pohnpei FSM, "in the neighborhood") is at the Truk Stop Hotel and dive ops with Kelvin Davidson --drop by on the way back to the airport if you have time and say hi for me!

 

[Baracuda Smile]

SF, do you actually dive or do you believe your own BS?

A new wreck with sketchy surface support, no redundancy, questionable vis, no partner with similar training, unknown target depths, no actual training for diving at depth (air or mixed gas not withstanding), physically sick with SUDAFED being taken???...

The poster did the best thing she could, she listened to herself first, double checked with a better trained individual (which she shouldnt of had to do...) but made the right decision.

p.s. before you talk about Suunto or any other product maybe you should actually run a V-Planer profile or Baltic or whatever and run the Suunto Sim against it and see where and how many minutes it figures deco

Oh and you forgot that Amy lost her luggage and most likely was diving rental gear. Hmm let me guess the quality of service of rental gear in Truk.

 

[Katamuki]

Good for you! It's hard to say no, especially when you WANT to do the dive. But there is always another day to dive, if you don't get yourself killed today

Lots of people have talked about your decision not to go (which was the right one). But you also asked how to get started, if you want to learn how to go do that dive right. To do a 170 foot dive safely, you need redundancy, and you need to be able to do staged decompression (and preferably accelerated decompression, if you don't want to spend all day in the water). A great place to begin is with an Intro to Tech class, or GUE Fundamentals. A class like that will introduce you to the level of skill that's necessary to do those sorts of dives competently -- it's very different from what's expected from recreational divers. The equipment is different, as well.

You're in Micronesia, and I don't have any idea where you would find a tech instructor to work with. You can take Fundies in Singapore, I know; I believe there are two GUE instructors there. I also believe Gideon periodically teaches in Hong Kong. There are also technical instructors (and GUE instructors) in Australia. There may be some closer to you, but I don't know who they are.

Good luck with this! Getting more training, in addition to allowing you to do dives you can't already do, also improves the quality of all the diving you ALREADY do.

There are also several NAUI technical instructors in Japan Mainland and Okinawa as well.

 

[RJP]

My friend who so wanted me to dive the San Fran with him is currently on oxygen.

Of course that's unfortunate, but not entirely unexpected I suppose.

Please do let us know how he fares.

 

[Buoyant1]

So here is the unfortunate punch line that we have all been half expecting...

They did the SF Maru. They had 10 minutes on the ship and a 30 min deco stop according to the DM.

After this, they insisted on doing the 130ft Nippo Maru even though the DM urged them not to do two deep dives in a row. They pressed the issue. They sorted it out this way: The DM who was on the SF dive did a shallower (yet still totally awesome) wreck with me for the second dive. A different DM who had not been diving yet that day did the Nippo with the SF group.

Apparently all types of things went wrong on their Nippo dive including: not finding the ship, losing the DM and a run away ascent.

My friend who so wanted me to dive the San Fran with him is currently on oxygen.

I can only hope that he will be okay.

Good to know you made the correct choice! This only reinforces that good choice!

As much as I'd love to do that dive myself, I know that I'm not qualified to do it (whether I think I can get away with it or not), and hope that if I'm faced with that challenge, I don't succumb to the "thrill" of it.

That's a tough way to learn a lesson, but some people just don't get it!

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

So here is the unfortunate punch line that we have all been half expecting...

They did the SF Maru. They had 10 minutes on the ship and a 30 min deco stop according to the DM.

After this, they insisted on doing the 130ft Nippo Maru even though the DM urged them not to do two deep dives in a row. They pressed the issue...

Oh dear, but entirely consistent with "human nature." We all have a certain tolerance for risk. It isn't a tolerance for absolute risk, but for our perception of risk. Before doing the SF Maru, they probably thought that 180' at 10 minutes was pushing things but within their risk limits. Having done it and not perceiving anything to have gone wrong, they re-calibrated their risk and probably felt it was "easy," and no big deal.

So having re-calibrated their perception of risk, they decided to keep on pushing it by doing the Nippo Maru on the same day. And things went wrong.

I think that kind of thing is always going to happen: Every risky dive where nothing goes wrong convinces the diver that it isn't as risky as he thought, so he tries another. The problem is that if they didn't actually see anything go wrong with their own eyes, they don't perceive that they were playing Russian Roulette but the firing pin clicked on an empty chamber this time.

Unfortunately I speak with a certain amount of experience in the matter: In 2008 I took a single HP100 to 135' on the Forest City in Tobermory. The wreck lies on a slope, and the view from the aft rail up the wreck toward the light was pure stoned-to-the-bone narcotic bliss.

Did I ask myself a lot of questions about why my insta-buddy on the dive(!) was diving a 120 with an H-valve? Or why two other teams were diving doubles? Did I get out of the water and swear to never return to that depth? Or did I immediately set about planning another dive just like that?

Fortunately for me, I got in with a wiser crowd and with SB, and set about planning a more sensible return. I made a plan to go back to it in 2009, and when I did not meet my own goals, decided to skip it. I'll be back on it when I'm actually ready, if it takes one year, five years, or ten.

I encourage you to make your own goal to dive the SF Maru when you're ready. It sounds like your are more sensible than I am and are already on the track by asking about the right kind of training.

FWIW, If I am ever interviewing buddies, I think I now have a question I can ask to gauge their common sense: Have you ever refused to do a dive that didn't feel right, even if everyone else was pressuring you to go?

Great call on your part. I admire you.